Megan Carlson, LPC: The Sound Was Easier Than the Feeling

Adeel Ahmad [0:00]: my usual like little intro and then we'll kind of go there. Okay, cool. So Megan, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here.

Megan [0:07]: Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

Adeel Ahmad [0:09]: Cool. Well, yeah, we talked a little bit just before this, but you wanna share a little bit about where I guess kinda where you're located if you want, and then what you do.

Megan [0:19]: Yeah, totally. So my name's Megan Carlson. I'm a licensed therapist, a licensed counselor, and I live in the Denver area. I have misophonia myself, but I've also been working with it a lot more lately. So that's a little overview of me.

Adeel Ahmad [0:32]: Yeah. Were you at the Denver Misophony Association Convention like a number of years ago?

Megan [0:38]: No, I like wasn't as plugged into the Misophonia community a few years ago. So I wasn't and I'm bummed that I missed it 'cause now I have to travel for it.

Adeel Ahmad [0:41]: Yeah, yeah. I was a er I was Yeah, yeah, yeah. I that was kind of my second year of kind of getting replu plugged into the community. That was like twenty nineteen, I feel like. So yeah. Cool. Well, great, yeah, I mean so yeah, you a lot a lot we can we can talk about. But but let's talk about is so you have misophonia and you work with people. Let's let's talk about you maybe what is kind of your misophonia life right now like?

Megan [1:10]: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I Missophonia started for me probably around eight or ten. feels pretty typical. And in childhood it was so bad. There were so many sounds that were so hard for me. And then I feel like after I left my house to go to college through like early adulthood, I think it was a little bit more manageable. And then it started to become a bigger thing. I think as I got into a partnership and shared a home with someone and all of those things. So You asked how it was right now. It's okay. I think I've been working on it really intentionally in therapy over the last couple of years and I've made some really meaningful shifts. So I feel like a few years ago it was like white noise on all the time, music always on in the car, and that's like not as true anymore. which I still like. If dinner's crunchy, sometimes we'll eat separate and stuff like that. But it controls my life a lot less now than it used to, which is really wonderful.

Adeel Ahmad [1:52]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, your trajectory is a lot like mine, around eight to ten and college, I don't really remember too much, and then it goes crazy as you become an adult and you kinda come under the stresses of of late modernity. so yeah, that's fascinating. So I guess yeah, so I guess right now, yeah, you have a kind of under control. So yeah, I was gonna ask.

Megan [2:12]: Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [2:32]: Do you are you working with a external therapist or are you using some of the things that you help people with on yourself?

Megan [2:38]: Yeah. Yeah, I think some of both. I have a therapist. So my training was in first I got trained in EMDR, which has been helpful with for misophonia, but then the second kind of big training I've leaned into is called sensory motor psychotherapy. so that's what I do with clients, and I have a sensory motor psychotherapist myself. and that's been really helpful for my misophonia. It's kind of like somatic experiencing.

Adeel Ahmad [2:56]: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Megan [3:06]: of like tapping into how activation is stored in the body and getting to release it. but then doing a lot more kind of attachment and relational work too. so I do really think it's a lot of work with my own therapist that's made a really big shift for me. I think I've kind of like taught her some about misophonia along the way. but it feels like she has a really good knowledge of nervous system dysregulation and stored patterns and rewiring the brain. So

Adeel Ahmad [3:21]: Yeah.

Megan [3:33]: I think with what I've taught her about misophonia and her understanding of therapy, it's worked really well.

Adeel Ahmad [3:39]: So obviously she didn't know about Miss Phonia before you started working with her?

Megan [3:42]: No, yeah. I don't know if you have this experience when I tell people about it. She's like, You know what? My husband eat eating ice cream really bothers me. so I joke with her sometimes. I'm like, I think you have a little bit of it. yeah. But no she

Adeel Ahmad [3:49]: Yeah. I know. Yeah. Right, right. Well, yeah, I have the I have the opposite reaction. I'm like, don't just stop talking. You don't you don't have it. This I don't obviously don't say that out loud and it's probably it's probably not true. It's usually just me being me being an old man, but yeah, that's yeah, well it's I mean we we'll get into this point I I feel like there's a huge, very fine spectrum. I mean, fine is a minute spectrum and there aren't really ways you can bucket

Megan [4:00]: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [4:23]: This or any or many other things really. so it's hard to it's hard to make that judgment. but you know that that's fascinating. So you okay, so so yeah, do you want to define the sensory motor, the rest of it? Just cause yeah. Yep.

Megan [4:25]: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it's called it's called sensory motor psychotherapy. and I kind of think about it as like a cousin to somatic experiencing, but it feels a little bit more organic or gentler or something like that. But I feel like there have been a few moments when I was like sitting in training where I was like, my gosh, this is misophonia. so the first part of the training is all about just trauma stored in the body, nervous system stuff, and releasing that.

Adeel Ahmad [4:52]: Yeah.

Megan [5:06]: And the second part is all about how relationships are harmful for us and like cause these procedural patterns. So I think a couple of pieces there. One one thing in my li in my first level that I learned about was overactive defenses. that sometimes if you experience something that's stressful and don't have the resources to navigate it, we'll get caught in this loop of overactive defenses. And misophonia just feels so much like that to me is like an old defense that I needed that I don't need now. But my system has a hard time telling when I need it and when I don't. but working with it in therapy is you know, feeling the overactive defense in your body and noticing where it first started, and then just really staying with the sensations that come up with that. So, like an example that comes to mind is you know, breathing snoring sounds are hard for me. but kind of tracing that back to like hearing my dad snoring and I can feel it in my body a little bit right now, but like feeling it in my body and noticing what my body needed to do that it didn't get to do at the time. and I often feel like the nervous system release, but it feels really emotional too. so that's kind of like the physical trauma piece, but then the relational piece is a lot about like what you learned about how you needed to show up in a relationship. So

Adeel Ahmad [6:04]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Megan [6:31]: Boundaries is a big piece there that I see as misophonia. Like I think a lot of people with misophonia use misophonia as a boundary to keep people away when things have felt like intrusive or too much, like that kind of thing. so helping them

Adeel Ahmad [6:40]: Yes, yes. Yeah, it's a signal or a signal or a it's it's a coping mechanism for yeah, it it's a coping mechanism in itself. People are talking about coping coping coping mechanisms for misophonia and I feel like that's denying the message that misophony can which is a kinda heretical thing, I guess, in in the modern in the modern ecosystem to yeah.

Megan [7:00]: Yeah, definitely, yeah. I'm I'm right here with you. Yeah, I mean, I think as I've worked with it more, I like really see it as like a protector. Like it just was working so hard to to keep me safe. and I do think there are coping mechanisms that are helpful to manage misophonia more, but seeing it as something that I do to cope feels like it was a big shift for me.

Adeel Ahmad [7:24]: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's important to see it to see both both sides of that. Because obviously we don't want it. It's not like we're it's not like we're bringing it on to kind of like to help us navigate the world, but it is a it's it's it's a it's a message. It's some kind of a mechan defense mechanism mechanism. which which to your point may not be as useful now as it may have been at at some point in the past. Do you want to talk a little bit about

Megan [7:31]: Yeah. Mm-hmm. huh. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [7:57]: 'Cause I've had I've had problems with this when I've dealt with this kind of tr quote unquote treatment, but like recognizing the feeling in your body. I I'm sure I don't know, if if you've had pati patients or if you have if you've had people like me, I'm like, how am I supposed to notice it? I'm getting really stressed out by it. Like what am I supposed to is that is that it is that scratched the n the feeling? Like how do you help people navigate finding the

Megan [8:23]: Yeah. sensation. Yeah. Maybe sitting across from them and like I feel like you could say a trigger sound and you see their body react whether it like pulls away or moves to the side or something like that. So maybe naming what I see. I think giving like a menu list of like does it feel like tightness or sinking or pushing or bracing or all of those things. you said you just start getting really stressed. Like it gets maybe too big and overwhelming to track it.

Adeel Ahmad [8:27]: The sensation, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was like okay, yeah, I mean I'm just like speaking freely here. yeah, I mean I was you know, I was I was seeing there Sue who who had th this you know, this kinda background was was asking me to to notice feelings and I I and I it obviously these kinds of things don't necessarily happen on the first session, but like after a few sessions I'm like, I'm still having a hard time and then I'm starting to think like this is costing me like whatever per session and I feel like I'm failing, you know, and so I was getting a little bit

Megan [8:58]: Yeah. That'd be cool.

Adeel Ahmad [9:24]: Anxious about like how am I supposed to know or or am I just kind of like contrive, am I just now making up feelings, you know? so as an engineer, I'm like, I need to get to the precise kind of thing and and have a whole understand how I got to that decision, like this sensation is really it. So I'm just kind of curious if if you know how you how you kind of navigate that, if if that even comes up, maybe most people kind of notice it more naturally. I don't know.

Megan [9:28]: Making it up. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah, yeah. There's some resources too, like have you seen the feelings wheel before?

Adeel Ahmad [9:53]: Mm-hmm. I think so, but do you do you wanna talk about that or how do you how do you Google for that? Okay.

Megan [9:57]: Yeah. Yeah. I mean if you Google Yeah, if you just Google feelings wheel, there's also an emo there's also an emotion sensation wheel, which is really cool because it'll talk about emotions, which maybe you'd be able to say like, I feel anger. And then in the little anger section, there's like maybe anger feels like hot or bracing, or so you can like kind of look at what what works. But I think one other piece,

Adeel Ahmad [10:06]: Yeah. Yeah.

Megan [10:25]: This comes up more in EMDR when I just have people like feeling the buzzers in their hands and noticing what comes up. Sometimes I'll say like, notice that you're not feeling anything or notice that you have a hard time noticing what you feel, because I think there's really something there, like kids with misophonia who are not attuned to disconnecting from how they actually feel is really valuable. so just even making space for that piece of it of like, I'm just noticing that it's hard to feel this.

Adeel Ahmad [10:35]: Mm. Right.

Megan [10:54]: or hard to be specific about this, like that's probably its own coping brilliance, you know, to like have a hard time feeling it.

Adeel Ahmad [10:59]: Yeah. Some and some of us could could need some I don't know if it's reparenting's the right word, but some of us did not grow up with any of that vocabulary.

Megan [11:08]: Yeah. Totally. Yeah. And that's why I really love that sensory motor psychotherapy is really trauma nervous system based, but also attachment based, 'cause you get to do really cool reparenting work of like imagining the little one and giving them at the table what they didn't get. so you get to do the nervous system discharge but also the reparenting pieces, which feels really special. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [11:25]: Yeah. Yeah. Do you wanna talk a little bit about about that? We talked a bit a little bit about the f the feelings aspect of it and how what I don't under what I wasn't was having a problem with less enough about me. Let's talk yeah, more about like how how you appro so so you said kids. So some of the people that we know mutually don't d don't work as much with kids. Some sounds like you work with all ages.

Megan [11:35]: Yeah. Yeah. I actually don't work with a ton of kids. I've done my fair share of it, but I think I just do better work with adults. I wish I was a kid teen person, but I'm just really not. but I guess when I talk about reparenting, it'll be like, you know, sitting with the adult in my therapy office and imagining their little inner one at the table, and getting to

Adeel Ahmad [11:54]: okay, okay. Gotcha. Yeah.

Megan [12:15]: walk them away or teach them about what they're feeling in their body or it's more like kind of guided imagery, to tend.

Adeel Ahmad [12:21]: Yeah. And it's real so it's it's going back to a real memory or putting yourself in a yeah.

Megan [12:25]: Yeah. Yeah, it can be going back to a real memory or I mean, there's like so many misophonia moments, you know, so like generalizing at the table thing. Or sometimes even I'll do like if that little kid was with us in the room right now, where would she be? And often they're like scared. They like want to hide behind somewhere and just being really gentle and giving them the space that they need. 'Cause I think a lot of kids with misophonia felt so intruded all the time.

Adeel Ahmad [12:50]: Yeah.

Megan [12:54]: and getting to give them a different experience of like, you can have all the space you need and we're not upset with you about it, can be really powerful too.

Adeel Ahmad [13:00]: Mm-hmm. and we we talked about like l looking for feelings. look how about finding those memories? 'Cause I feel like I I kinda do people who listen to podcast n may sense that I kind of like go back and try to f try to find stuff in my capacity of a of a rando podcaster. But as an extra I'm I'm just kinda curious, like that d does everybody come in with a memory that they know or a group of members that they know, or are there folks that you kinda have to kinda like

Megan [13:06]: Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [13:32]: got it little bit and I'm just kinda wondering if you could kinda I don't know give some tips on how to how to get people to think back.

Megan [13:33]: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sure, yeah. I also worked with a sequent repatterning therapist for a little bit. that was several years ago now, but I think with in that modality it came up too like asking about early misophonia memories. And I just hadn't thought about them. maybe I'm wondering, are you like finding that it's or do you feel like it's hard to imagine the early experiences?

Adeel Ahmad [13:44]: Uh-huh.

Megan [14:04]: Like I think when I just first started to think about like when did I first start feeling this, it was like, yeah, the car. I remember the gum chewing in the car. I think that was the first thing. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [14:08]: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So there's some people who remember that. then I guess there there's some people who a a lot of people who who come on the podcast remember what was happening around their life, like in the home and outside of the home that that potentially they could draw a line to to misophonia. but then there there are people who come on and and I feel like in the in the kind of the popular discussion of misophonia, it's more about

Megan [14:25]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [14:42]: the trauma of having misophonia as opposed to anything pre onset. And I'm curious if I don't know, if you think about that distinction when you're when you're going back, because you kinda would have to if you want to get to the root of the problem.

Megan [14:44]: Yeah. Sure. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's something that still maybe feels kind of fuzzy for me as I'm I think I've like really been leaning into working with misophonia probably the last year or so. But yeah, I think that's something that feels sticky for me still a little bit. 'cause so many people, you know, are like, I had a fine childhood, nothing bad happened. But then we'll like go to the dinner table and they're like, my gosh, I actually felt really trapped at the dinner table.

Adeel Ahmad [15:03]: Yeah. Yes.

Megan [15:24]: And maybe that's a misophonia thing or maybe it's like how I felt in my family system too. and it's hard to distinguish those things. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe that's go ahead.

Adeel Ahmad [15:31]: Which is all which is I feel like is all related. Yeah, I don't th but I don't think you necessarily need to distinguish them. to your to your p to your Yeah, sorry. I was gonna say to your point earlier about about s about messages, these are messages and interactions inside. at an age when you couldn't really you didn't really have the words. Even if you or of even if you're in a in a very kind of communicative and well well attuned family, you're at such a young age that you don't have the life experience to maybe

Megan [15:46]: Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [16:00]: express a lot of these things. So your body has to do it for you.

Megan [16:01]: Communicate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And in my own therapy this comes up a lot that I'm like, I just want to know why like this happened. and maybe knowing the why isn't actually the most important part. Like just being able to work with the activation itself, I think is the most important part. And maybe the why is like a way to get out of the discomfort of really just feeling like how bad it felt, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [16:17]: Yeah. That is a good point. Maybe I'm over maybe I'm over engineering and root causing yes. man. Okay. I should maybe I should hire you. But no that's it that's an excellent point. anyway, yes, that's why it's I think Smith's funny is such a fascinating field more than just the you know, can't stand certain sounds.

Megan [16:32]: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it feels like such a portal to like getting straight to the deep work. Like I feel like my clients that don't have misophonia sometimes will just like, you know, bop around on the surface for a long time. But with the misophonia people, it's like, my gosh, we're suddenly at six years old and these feelings. but I think that's been really cool in my own process too, is like I think if I didn't have it I wouldn't be doing this deep work that I'm doing now that I'm it's really hard, but I'm really glad that I'm doing it too. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [17:02]: Yes. Yeah. So has have you learned yeah, I mean I don't know w what I guess w what do you do you have what have you kind of I guess learned about but yourself maybe that that you didn't realize that you were going to learn when you first started on this and you know you don't you don't have to say everything or or anything really. I'm just kind of

Megan [17:24]: Yeah. Hmm. my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know if you feel this way too, but I'm like so much. Like it's just brought up so much for me. which I think a lot of people would say that. But I think it's really painted a picture of what I didn't get when I was younger that I really needed. which I think has helped inform what I look for in my relationships now. Like

Adeel Ahmad [17:40]: Yeah.

Megan [17:58]: My partner is so wonderful, my friends are so wonderful, the people I work with are so wonderful. and I think I'm just really intentional about surrounding myself with really safe, honoring intentional people. so maybe I've learned a lot about what I didn't get that I needed, which has brought up a lot of grief work, but has helped create my life to be like really rich now.

Adeel Ahmad [18:10]: Yeah.

Megan [18:24]: I think maybe two pieces about being just like a sensitive kid and a sensitive person. Like I feel like I can embrace being highly sensitive a little bit more after doing some of this work. and it feels like I get to like bring my little one along and be like, like, Megan, look what the world can be like, look what people can be like, like look how good it can feel. and that feels really special.

Adeel Ahmad [18:35]: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's a good it's an interesting point 'cause I was gonna I was gonna ask, I wonder if anyone's thought of like I don't know, a a misophonia informed I don't wanna say guide for parents as as and and not just about the the typical thing that you might think of then as like how to not trigger your child or whatever, but more like how how do you or or how how do you not develop misophonia but more like how do you

Megan [19:03]: Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [19:18]: Knowing what we knowing what we know of how you know, the the I don't know, the the needs that we didn't have growing up, how can how can we use what we've learned from Misophonia to help make better chil childhoods for for children? I wonder if anyone's thought about that. Maybe that's another book. okay, okay.

Megan [19:26]: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I actually have been working on something like that a little bit. Yeah, yeah. So I am an individual therapist. I also own a group therapy practice. But I am so excited about working with misophonia lately and I've been trying to create resources and I don't have a ton of time for it. But that is one thing I've been working on is like a parenting toolkit, with like a nervous system informed video to explain to the parent and explain to the kid what's happening. But then a lot of these pieces of like how to work with the helplessness that comes up or the shame that comes up or the lack of boundaries that comes up, like doing all the emotionally safe pieces to help your kid feel like they can have what they want and get what they want and say no when they want, and just have like a nervous system that feels safer. Yeah. So it's not done yet, but it's something that I have been thinking about and working on. It's like in the in the background. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [20:19]: Yeah. Okay. I like that. And yeah. Well if you if you need help, you know my email address. that sound that sounds awesome. well I guess so okay, I wanna talk a little bit about your childhood, maybe if if you want it in in more in kind of in more detail. 'Cause I I'd also like to hear about like siblings and your parents and w w what they think about now. But you didn't mention EMDR as well, so I I'm just trying to think first of all I don't remember, do you

Megan [20:31]: Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [20:52]: Do you exclusively work with people with misophonia or is it kinda all over the place?

Megan [20:56]: Yeah, I work with a variety of things. I mean, I work with a lot of just childhood trauma. people who have childhood trauma but not misophonia and it feels like similar work sometimes. but yeah, I'm trained in EMDR and then I also got trained recently in a therapy that I got trained in because I thought it could be helpful for misophonia. It's called ART or accelerated resolution therapy. Have you heard of that one?

Adeel Ahmad [20:58]: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Yes. Well, yes, I was my the the the therapist that I was w working with, that's kind of what we did at the end. So I had to like I should ask I should ask you to define it, but I'll say what I what happened to me like the the ther therapist I had to think of an image, like a negative ish image, and then I had to think of a positive one and then kind of like almost like like painting over graffiti, like

Megan [21:24]: Okay. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. That's what it is. Uhhuh. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [21:45]: paint over that image and I forget if it was just that one time or if there was anything else to it, but but if I did it repeatedly, then that's supposed to kinda like re rewire in a way. So

Megan [21:50]: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I'm on this like quest to to solve this for myself. So right now I'm seeing my sensory motor therapist, but I'm also seeing an ART therapist. So I'm doing a little bit of both. But yeah, it's like doing the the negative memories and then getting to play through the memory how you wish it could have gone. and that's the memory reconsolidation work of like opening up the old neural network of the

Adeel Ahmad [22:03]: Okay. Yeah. Right.

Megan [22:23]: hard memory and getting to provide a new information before it like closes back up. and I I don't know if this happens for you too, but I feel like I have moments and I don't know what exactly it is in therapy where I'm like, that used to bother me and I'm okay right now. so I don't know if I can't can exactly point to like, it's because of this session or that or whatever. But I think with ART clumping it all together just as misophonia, maybe it's more helpful to break it down by sounds. Like I'm thinking about what Sarah Beidler talks about about different emotional learnings going with different sounds and being able to understand those pieces and then process through those pieces individually, whether it's through EMDR or ART or something else.

Adeel Ahmad [23:10]: Yeah, as opposed to thinking of Miss Funny as kind of a monolithic thing. Yeah, yeah.

Megan [23:13]: Uhhuh. Yeah. 'Cause I think it serves different purposes for different different sounds, different situations. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [23:18]: Yeah. Right, right. Yeah, 'cause I don't think it's like some you know, hard wiring that was that's kinda wrong. I think it's something that was needed in different contexts. and and for some reason for some people it might just be it might have might have been just that one context. But I think I think I and now I'm speculating, but I think i especially if you are a tend to be a more highly sensitive person, you've probably had multiple experiences where you needed to kind of like

Megan [23:32]: Yeah, mm-hmm.

Adeel Ahmad [23:50]: Defend yourself, protect yourself. interesting. Okay, so yeah. So so then EMDR or whatever. So you as a as a trained therapist, you kinda know when to use what, or maybe you try different things with different people until something starts to click. Yeah.

Megan [23:51]: Mm-hmm, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I mean, I think it's like a really sticky symptom. So ha I'm glad to have different things to throw at it or try with it. And in my own therapy, we do a lot of the sensory motor psychotherapy work, but one thing we've added in recently, my therapist has trained in EMDR too is we'll just do the bilateral stimulation of the buzzers. And that has been helping more for some reason too. so I think it's kind of cool to like layer in.

Adeel Ahmad [24:25]: Mm-hmm.

Megan [24:32]: Different things 'cause it's so deep. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [24:33]: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It it is it it's so deep and I I just find I remember something else I was thinking when you when you pointed out that sometimes you don't really need don't really need to like go down to like a single root cause. and that could be a way that you d are distracting yourself. I I mean you think of like, you know

Megan [24:49]: Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [24:57]: n do we need to spend millions of dollars on neuroimaging scans every year? Is that really are you are you are you sure you're actually not just kind of shuffling shuffling pieces of paper and just kind of like pretending you're do pretending you're solving a problem and maybe you're actually masking something

Megan [25:07]: Yeah. But but Yeah. Hmm. And when you get into the thing that you're avoiding, it's so hard to. I don't know if you've ever felt that of like, okay, I'm not distracting in all my things, and I'm like in how bad that felt. And it's like, yeah, of course I do everything to avoid what this feels like. Yeah. I had a really interesting e experience in therapy a couple of months ago actually that I was like working with the misophonia trigger.

Adeel Ahmad [25:22]: Right. Yes, yes,

Megan [25:42]: And feeling the discomfort of feeling really helpless and alone and it was really painful. And then I started to notice like the air conditioner outside of her office like clicking. And I remember having like the conscious thought, like, I would just so much rather pay attention to that sound than pay attention to how I feel right now. but it was so interesting to become aware of that, of like, I would just love to hang out with that air conditioning click rather than hang out with myself right now. That sounds so much better.

Adeel Ahmad [25:59]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And my in the okay of that. Yeah. Right. Yes. This maybe we shared the same office because yeah, that's kinda kinda went somewhere where it was like a there was always a sh air air conditioner and then sometimes the yeah, one day the extra wasn't working and then they had open the window and then I could hear everything outside on the street and it was just like yeah. Anyways I guess the perils of of going to see a therapist with misophonia sometimes your body is just you can't turn that you can't turn that protection off.

Megan [26:24]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [26:40]: I wonder, yeah, how do you how do you get people in the right state? Or or do you feel like they're there it needs to be a right state? Maybe there doesn't and then that makes it easier for you to find the problem. I don't know. Do you wanna talk about that a little?

Megan [26:45]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, as we're talking about this, one thing that's coming to my mind is at my therapist's office she plays music in the waiting room. and we go in different offices sometimes and I have a memory of being in an office closer to the waiting room so I could like hear the background music and I didn't like it. and instead of what? I just like

Adeel Ahmad [27:11]: Yeah. No, no, I'm I'm well my next question was gonna be like, do you think that the the the environment affects whether you're gonna it's gonna whether the session is gonna help you or not? And

Megan [27:20]: Yeah. Well I think what was really powerful in this moment and what I feel free to say and do now is like I actually feel like I can't sit with what I'm trying to talk about because this sounds so distracting to me. And rather than even her just going to turn it off, she was like, Let's go do it together. And that's kind of like the reparenting work of like I mean, I was like crying as we went into the hallway to turn off the sound machine, but for her to be like, No, Megan, this is like really important to me to help you feel comfortable and I'm gonna go do it with you.

Adeel Ahmad [27:25]: Yeah.

Megan [27:50]: And I ended up not turning it all the way off, but just turning the volume down. But in sensory motor psychotherapy, you like make everything really experiential. so it was really cool to have this moment with I feel like I do some mom projection at my therapist. She's like an older woman. but to have me and this older woman going to do what I needed together that I didn't get to do when I was younger, and then just be like, wow. I like feel like goosebumpy now. Like it just is so special that you let me do that and supported me in doing that, you know.

Adeel Ahmad [28:19]: Did you get did you I mean was that a mo did you like break down yeah, I I'm just trying to add 'cause

Megan [28:26]: When she when she was like, Do you wanna go into the hallway together and like do it together? I started crying and I like, I don't know if I wanna go into the hallway crying but like, yeah, I do wanna do this together. Like I think that would feel really good. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [28:30]: Yeah. Yeah. I think to people listening, I if I were to do that, I can tell you right now, I would have just kind of broken down too. And that's something honestly that kind of makes me probably makes me kind of wanna not deal with that. And and that it's kind of a barrier to 'cause 'cause it just it's too much. Like it's your point of like we we find out we're a lot, I think I think we come up with I I definitely would come up come up with excuse like right now I've been telling people like too involved in work, but as soon as, you know, I can take a vacation, that's kinda when I'm gonna do all this deep work. And I can kinda hear myself putting this stuff off because I know I'm gonna have a ton of experiences like what you just had with your, you know, turn the doing something small, but you know that it had to do Yeah, because something big happened thirty, forty years ago. because I I mentioned some of those in the sessions and now I'm turning this

Megan [29:11]: huh. That's so big. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

Adeel Ahmad [29:31]: to me. But I mentioned some of the some little things in sessions I was in with my therapist and I spontaneously broke down. and so it's kinda what I was asking if that little volume thing because for me like music was a big part of the issues kind of growing up. And yeah, anyways.

Megan [29:38]: Yeah. Yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when I like bring on a new misophonia client and they come to my office, like one of the first things I say is like, is there anything in here that's activating for you that we can change? 'Cause I'm like, I just and and if anything ever comes up about how I'm talking or whatever, like I really want you to tell me. And it feels like that's a corrective experience that so many people with misophonia never had was for someone to be like, I really want to know and I really want to help. But I totally resonate too with what you're saying about the too muchness. Like, the emotion around getting to have those experiences that we didn't have is like so big. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [30:29]: Yeah, yeah. And I think even before we n yeah, I I think there's a lot of yeah, avoiding and or kind of like doing busy work or or busy research, which doesn't really attack attack the problem. But but just to your good point, I I think therapists who are listening should hear what you just said about these little corrective things. You can do a little a bunch of like micro reparenting stuff which which would have I think has a big impact on people who might not realize that they need some of that yet, you know.

Megan [30:37]: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the power of really slowing it down. Of like, it's not like my therapist wasn't just gonna go turn down the volume for me. She was gonna like make it a whole thing where it's like, we're like doing it together, you know, and I'm like really feeling it to like, what does this feel like for you to have an adult here with you who wants to help you with this? Slowing it down in that way feels so different than just fixing the problem, but to be like, How can we do this really relationally and really together?

Adeel Ahmad [31:10]: Fascinating.

Megan [31:25]: It gives me goosebumps. I like have them right now. It just feels really like sacred is the word that's coming to my mind.

Adeel Ahmad [31:28]: Yeah. Yeah, and my my one of my cr critiques of and and it's not my own critique is like where our therapy has turned into you know, insurance friendly, take this PHQ questionnaire and be you know, that kind of stuff spinning the news, but like zoom zoom zoom sessions with with questionnaires is kind of what we've become. And you don't get any of that what you just experienced and which which I think is what's needed.

Megan [31:45]: Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It can be so so human. And reparenting, yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [32:03]: Yeah. okay, switching gears a l a little bit. Yeah, I mean, do you want to talk so what was your w what was your family like? You know, you were living with your parents, siblings and stuff growing up. kinda curious how that arc went and how how things are now.

Megan [32:12]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. I have an older brother and a younger brother, his middle child and the only girl. and I think like in late nineties, early two thousands, like people weren't parenting the way then than they are now. I don't think, like as tuned into sensitivities and stuff like that. So I don't like blame them, but I think when I started to have the sound stuff, it was kinda just like, you know, learn to deal with it, wear your headphones kind of thing. Like I have like memories of

Adeel Ahmad [32:45]: Right. Right.

Megan [32:49]: being in the car, like on a road trip, and my parents being like, just watch your movie or whatever. And watching the movie by hearing the car music through the headphones. so I think they like tried to accommodate me some, but I think I was suffering a lot still. and my brothers were brothers, you know, like there was some chewing in my face and those kinds of things. I think there was a point as I got a little bit older where my

Adeel Ahmad [32:59]: Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Megan [33:17]: mom like, Yeah, I'm not gonna chew gum around you anymore but I think it took a lot of pleading for that to become true. So I think that kind of stuff got stuck in my system of like, I'm gonna I'm gonna ask and it's not gonna work it's not gonna work.

Adeel Ahmad [33:27]: Yeah. What did they yeah, it's interesting you said things are different 'cause I think about that because my my recollection of I'm probably a little bit older than you. My recollection of the nineties was like, you know, the the sensitive nineties man. And so it it just seemed like at the time it seemed like, everyone's pretty sensitive. But now that I think back it was very much sensitive nineties meant like sensitive in like relationships like the show friends and, you know, shit like that. But it wasn't so much the the parenting relationship. That was still I think

Megan [33:42]: Yeah. Sure. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [33:59]: stuck in a pretty you know authoritarian and and and child kind of role.

Megan [34:05]: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, like I'm I'm the parent and we're gonna do it this way kind of thing. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [34:08]: Yeah. What were your parents what did they do for work kind of thing and

Megan [34:14]: Yeah. Yeah. My mom was a stay at home mom and my dad worked in car factories as like a management person. yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [34:22]: Yeah. And did they how how were their child childhoods like pretty chill? Messi, okay, yeah.

Megan [34:28]: Yeah, mess messy. yeah. I think maybe s what I feel some about the depth of misophonia is that it feels a little bit like intergenerational too. Like I think a lot of people with misophonia, their parents have dysregulated nervous systems too. and it just creates it in the whole system, you know. My mom, this didn't come up until later, like as I was an adult, that she was like chewing sounds bother me too. and she would like maybe poke a little bit of fun at some of my sounds. Like my ankles are really cracky, and she would like make the sound with her mouth as I would walk down the stairs. So I wonder if she was trying to do some of that like masking or repeating back thing. so I think my mom has a little a little bit of it herself.

Adeel Ahmad [35:17]: yeah yeah yeah bright. Yeah.

Megan [35:22]: But yeah, I think there was just some like d dysregulation present in my home. and my flavor became misophonia. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [35:28]: Yeah. Right, right. And gotcha. Okay. And and and what about other well any other and well any comorbid conditions with yourself or maybe I don't know, maybe some of your other family members?

Megan [35:43]: Yeah. Yeah. When I was young, I was an anxious kid too. and then I think kind of anxiety and depression have come and gone through my adult life. I feel like I have some O C D tendencies, some ADHD tendencies. I feel like I've got I've got the whole gamut, but as we're talking about misophonia as a symptom, I feel like I kind of see them all as like a symptom or a messenger almost of like the lack of safety I feel in my own system comes out in all of these different ways.

Adeel Ahmad [36:01]: Yeah. Yeah.

Megan [36:17]: so yeah, I defin definitely have a a soup of all the different letter letters of conditions.

Adeel Ahmad [36:24]: Did your family members see any g seek any help for anything that, you know, they may have

Megan [36:28]: Yeah, when I was yeah, when I was young my parents took me to a psychiatrist. I think I wish they would have taken me to a therapist. So I was medicated.

Adeel Ahmad [36:38]: But to your point, I mean that's I I don't think psycholog psychologists or therap well, I mean analysts were it was was a term that was around for a long time, but I think it was mainly meant for like, you know, New York City kind of people. I it psychiatry tend to be the you know, the place people would go. Yeah.

Megan [36:50]: Yeah. And I think kids were Yeah, like let's just let's just medicate it. Yeah. And I think the kids being in therapy was like if something really bad had happened, maybe you'd send your kid to therapy. But like kids were just in therapy, like I think they are now, if they're struggling, you know. Yeah. So when I was really young I was on Prozac for a while.

Adeel Ahmad [37:04]: Yeah. Right, right. Mm-hmm.

Megan [37:16]: And this actually connects to another, I'm like a sensory motor psychotherapy evangelist. I love it so much. but they talk about different like adaptive strategies that you develop at different ages. And one of them is about holding everything in. and that feels really common with misophonia is a strategy of holding everything in, and then there's a ton of activation on the inside. but I think that was kind of going on for me was like I was medicated and you know, I've always been.

Adeel Ahmad [37:21]: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah.

Megan [37:45]: the easy one or wanted to be okay or good. I think being good was really important to me. so I think I appeared like I was doing just fine. And I think at the time probably I felt okay enough. But looking back on it now, I think there was a lot of holding in a lot of activation. that I'm like releasing now as I work with my therapist. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [37:54]: Mm-hmm. Gotcha. And so and so and then at home, like at the it was a dinner table kind of stuff would be kind of triggering you. Yeah.

Megan [38:14]: Yeah. I actually feel like the dinner table isn't the worst for me. There was this salad my mom would eat all the time. It was like a colesla. I feel like I can remember that sound. And even now, like people eating vegetables is kinda hard for like the crunch of a vegetable is kind of hard. I feel like I remember gum chewing in the car. my my grandma had

Adeel Ahmad [38:24]: Mm-hmm. Remember that sounds Yeah. Yep. right, right.

Megan [38:41]: An oxygen machine. I don't know if you've ever been around someone who has an oxygen machine and it like puffs every yeah, yeah. so I remember my grandma's oxygen machine puffing all the time. I remember my parents rubbing their feet together, my brothers chewing in my face. So yeah, uh-huh. Their own feet together. Yeah. And I remember I would like, I can hear the clunk of like I would like to pick up my dad's foot and

Adeel Ahmad [38:46]: I usually run when I see that. their own feet together, right? Not okay, yeah.

Megan [39:06]: put it on the other side of the coffee table. But then he would like just put right back together, you know, and keep yeah. so I think there was a lot a lot of I'm trying to ask for what I need and then it being like, well. Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [39:07]: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, gotcha. and then what about right now? Like w do you talk about misophonia with them? When did you find out it had a name, first of all, maybe?

Megan [39:26]: Yeah. Yeah. I think in I was in grad school to become a therapist. I worked at the library at my graduate school and someone at the library also had misophonia and she told me about it and I was like, my gosh You know, the experience of like, there's a name for this. and I think I put it on the back burner for a little bit and then I got into a relationship with my current partner who was so wonderful, but that's when it started to like

Adeel Ahmad [39:32]: Mm. Yeah.

Megan [39:55]: really ramp up again. and you named earlier, like maybe it was like the stressors of adulthood. I feel like I kind of see it as like the closer the person, the more my system feels like it needs the boundary. or the more like threatened or scared my system feels. so it comes it comes up with close friends sometimes, but my partner was the first time where it was like, okay, this is really impacting me.

Adeel Ahmad [39:57]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

Megan [40:24]: I remember at the beginning of our relationship having the thought of like, I don't think I'm ever gonna be able to tell him that his breathing bothers me. Like that's just so crazy to say. but you know, now I say it all the t all the time. And I feel like we are trying to find and have found our ways of doing it more gently, like, you know, my I first language of like I'm experiencing misophonia right now, rather than like, can you stop doing that? And us just doing our best to both be as neutral as possible.

Adeel Ahmad [40:24]: Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Megan [40:52]: For me to try to not let it build up before I say something, because then my reactions usually get a little bit feistier. But it feels really like I just feel so grateful for my partner and that I get to have those corrective experiences with him of like saying what I need and him responding and us figuring it out together. Like that feels really, really healing to me too. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [41:18]: Yeah, I just want to let that sit because you just you just hit a bunch of b a bunch of stuff that comes up is like how do you how do you tell somebody? and you you said it like you you use I you because everyone obviously gets defensive. So you just talked about how you frame it. as an I I experience it. and then you talked about the yeah, the the the classic don't bring it up when you're in the middle of a trigger. That's kind of the last time.

Megan [41:22]: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Adeel Ahmad [41:46]: But then also, it's hard I don't know about I don't know about you, but it's just like what I'm not experiencing, that's the last, it's the furthest thing from my mind. So it's like I almost I'm like I'm so relieved because we get so exhausted that I don't wanna bring it up. When things are good, I'm like, hey, things are good, I don't wanna bring it up. And then suddenly you get triggered. So there's there's that kind of like I don't know, tension that you gotta we gotta we gotta navigate. But but no, you you had a a

Megan [41:55]: Yeah. Hmm expert in it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [42:14]: Those those are amazing tips I think that that people should hear.

Megan [42:16]: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why it feels so much more intimidating or something for me to share. We're in couples therapy too. I feel like everyone talks about being in individual therapy, but we're we also go to couples therapy. He I think would be okay with me saying that. and I did ask him yesterday, is there anything you don't want me to say? And he was like, No, you can share what feels important to you. but we make a lot of space in that in couples therapy to talk about misophonia, just 'cause it like

Adeel Ahmad [42:28]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Megan [42:46]: is a massive part of our relationship. Like it's so significant. And I think setting aside time for me to hear about what it's like for him, for him to hear about what it's like for me, for us to like figure out new ways to try to do things together. I think that's felt really important to get out of the loop that we find ourselves stuck in and be like, like the the experiment we're trying right now is I think a lot of times I'll try to hold it in because if I say it,

Adeel Ahmad [42:48]: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Megan [43:15]: then you know, it causes some disconnection. but the experiment we're running right now is I'm just gonna say it like the very first moment that I'm feeling it and we're just gonna see how that goes instead of me trying to hold it in a little bit. And I think that's nice because I feel more seen. Like I feel like he gets let into like how early often I am suffering. He gets less of my like big activation. so I just think making intentional space for it has been really significant.

Adeel Ahmad [43:30]: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's amazing. and I love that that you talk about that in advance where you kinda like let I mean, yeah, you're you're saying that in advance that hey, I'm gonna bring it up the s at the earliest moment without even really filtering it, and that just kinda like gives people a heads up and then it kind of lowers the hopefully l yeah, lowers that the threat feeling on both sides, really.

Megan [43:45]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Uhhuh. Yeah. It's like I can say when I'm at like a two instead of at an eight and then we're not fighting. We're just like having a more neutral conversation about it. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [44:14]: Yeah. Right. And he can say he's allowed to say, Look, your ankles are driving me crazy. no. Yeah, I know, I know, I know. I I've just I'm just bringing it into other projecting it into other people.

Megan [44:25]: That's my mom that says that. He He's so gentle with me. He's so lovely. and I you know, of course he has feedback from me about things too, but I just so grateful for how much space he gives me to work through this stuff. And one thing I said to him e actually just yesterday was like, I know it comes out a lot at you, but I think it's actually not that much about you. Like, it's all my per projection stuff about

Adeel Ahmad [44:52]: Yes.

Megan [44:54]: boundaries and closeness and feeling helpless and feeling scared. and I like really do trust as I keep working on it in therapy that'll keep shifting. I think hearing of the other people in this community who don't have it anymore. I think I used to not I used to be too scared to hope that for myself and I think now I see that it feels kind of possible. but I don't remember what I was saying there. Just that, yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [45:07]: Mm-hmm.

Megan [45:22]: My my old stuff comes out with him and that feels hard. So I think it's important to make space for what it's like for him too. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [45:25]: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And so I are are your so so the stuff you're doing on yourself right now, does it include you know seek whether it's basically memory reconsolidation? are are is that what you're working on? Because some you know, some of the folks we know together have definitely like been successful in really lowering their misphonia to almost zero.

Megan [45:46]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [45:58]: through techniques like that. I'm kinda curious where or how you see that maybe helping you.

Megan [46:02]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sensory motor psychotherapy and ART accelerated resolution therapy are both memory reconsolidation approaches. so that's how I see I guess what I'm experiencing as a client and what I'm doing with my clients. like the moment I shared of going into the hallway to turn down the volume on the music, like that was a memory reconsolidation moment of like the emotion that came up of like I have a need.

Adeel Ahmad [46:10]: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Megan [46:31]: And I'm scared to ask for something to be different. And then for her to say, like, no, I want to be in this with you. And then they're really like savoring what that was like, I think helps the neural networks update to like maybe there actually are people that wanna help you and your nervous system doesn't need to be so on guard all the time. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so I see it through all through a memory reconsolidation lens too.

Adeel Ahmad [46:33]: Yeah. Right. Right, right. No, fascinating.

Megan [46:58]: Which there's just a lot of different theor EMDR does memory reconsolidation too. So yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [47:02]: Right, right. And I usually ask people I mean, I used to ask people about well, okay, you have misophonia, do you also have misokinesia? When I used to think that these things were distinct things. Now I'm almost don't really ask, but 'cause I think like to your point, I'm sure I'm assuming you agree these are all part of the same spectrum slash group of things. But I have to ask, like, is that part of your experience as well? beyond just sounds.

Megan [47:11]: Yeah. huh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Have you read I have it in my bag, Chris Pearson's Misophonia Repatterned. Have you seen that book yet? Okay.

Adeel Ahmad [47:33]: I have not. I've definitely seen the book you know, w 'cause Sara Sarah's got it, she talks, she she definitely talks, but I definitely want to read it 'cause I love I wanna read a good kind of academic kind of book on that stuff. Yeah. Yes, yes.

Megan [47:43]: Yeah. Well he names it as like it's not just sound and visual, it's like every sense. And I have a really hard tactile time, like I don't like how some fabrics feel and stuff like that. I think that's one place that it shows up a lot. It feels maybe more tactile than visual for me. but yeah, I think it's all just about an overwhelmed dysregulated nervous system that feels like everything's threatening. Uhhuh.

Adeel Ahmad [47:52]: Mm-hmm. Yep. Well I I well I s I say on the podcast, I don't know if I'm the first for but but I but I the way I frame it is that I mean hearing is is the initial is always the initial survival sense. Like it's the only thing you can't block out. You can block every other sense out, but you can't block that out even if you close your ears. and so I feel like it makes sense that that is the first symptom.

Megan [48:25]: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adeel Ahmad [48:37]: And the first kind of early warning sign. And then everything else kinda develops to kinda like you know, has has a kind of a downstream effect, to that. So

Megan [48:39]: Uh-huh. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think some of the like OCD like symptoms too are also just an extension of like so many things feel like a threat that aren't actually a threat, but they all feel like a threat to my nervous system. Yeah. I had a really interesting moment. My my husband got his wisdom teeth out like six months ago ish. and he was like on anesthesia and

Adeel Ahmad [48:59]: Right. Right. Interesting. Yeah.

Megan [49:16]: vulnerable and those kinds of things. But we came home and I put him in bed and he was like watching something on the TV and playing video games, which hearing something on the TV and hearing the video game controller are often really hard for me. And I was like totally fine. I was like I feel like I like looking around him being like, What's happening right now? That I can like like it wasn't even a little bit of distress, but I think there was something about him being vulnerable or like

Adeel Ahmad [49:33]: Mm-hmm.

Megan [49:44]: less scary to me that my system was able to be like, I'm actually totally okay right now. I was kinda like, I wanna like hang on to this, so I can come back to it and that has been harder to do, but it was really cool to see like, my gosh, I like don't think anything bad could happen to me right now and therefore this the sounds aren't bothering me and I'm okay. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [49:45]: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. Yes. And that's kinda well how what I tell parents and prospective parents is that we usually kids don't trigger somebody until I think our bodies or our brains assign a sense of agency to them. Like, okay, they they can't they they're not vulnerable anymore. Now they can make a decision. and I noticed that that is that's around the time when I w I get triggered.

Megan [50:25]: Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [50:34]: about someone. Now if it's somebody else's kid and they're just being fucking annoying little shits, yeah, I'll definitely get true. But then that goes to the whole boundaries and then just kind of like just stress level and all that stuff. But I think it's when your own kid that's there's a different dynamic and there's that you're more tuned to their vulnerability and doesn't trigger me. So I think it's similar to your game playing wisdom tooth

Megan [50:42]: feeling intruded and yeah. Uhhuh, yeah. Uhhuh. Anesthesia husband. Yeah. Uhhuh. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [51:02]: Puffy f puffy faced partner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. but okay. Well we'll have to find other other teeth problems with him and maybe. Yeah. If you're having a rough week, we'll just yeah, knock a tooth out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. well fascinating. Okay, okay. and yeah, I so you said that you

Megan [51:17]: So I can have more more moments of being okay. Uh-huh. Like we let's just go to the dentist.

Adeel Ahmad [51:31]: Owner you said you also own a pr a group practice?

Megan [51:34]: Yeah, so I have in practice where I see my clients individually. I co-own a group practice with a good friend. She also has some misophonia. but we have tennis therapists that work for us. one of my other coping strategies is overworking. so I am working on starting a third business too. that's like all kind of misophonia related, where I talked about that parenting guide that I'm creating. but I have a kind of sensory motor. Psychotherapy esque workshop that you can buy. And I'm gonna start to run groups too, which I'm really excited about. I think like being in a group of people with other misophonia and doing some of this somatic repatterning work is really cool. So I'm doing it virtual, yeah. and I'm starting the first one in a few weeks, but I wanna keep running them because I just I'm loving working with misophonia so much.

Adeel Ahmad [52:19]: In real life or virtual? Okay.

Megan [52:31]: But one other piece from sensory motor psychotherapy talks a lot about somatic and somatic resourcing. So helping your body feel more resourced, safe in the world. so there's different kinds of experiments you can do about boundaries or overwhelm or having a sense of containment, like my body ends here and everything doesn't get in. Like I can feel myself inside my own body or discharging stress and all of those things. But I just feel like I've learned so many wonderful

Adeel Ahmad [52:41]: Mm-hmm.

Megan [53:01]: Nuggets from sensory motor psychotherapy connected to misophonia specifically. So that's why I want to do these somatic resourcing groups. so that's my my third business. I've called it the Safe for Sounds Club.

Adeel Ahmad [53:14]: Safer Sounds Club. No, that's great. Yeah, I'll definitely yeah, as this this will go live maybe around that around that time. Definitely give the links. I want to promote that then and I'll mention it after as well. that sounds awesome. yeah, I'm also someone who maybe n not so much on the therapy business side, but yeah, I have way too many projects. And I I I just I think part of it is yeah, just I feel like

Megan [53:16]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, thanks. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [53:42]: If I feel if I if I keep my cognitive side f completely full, if I clo comp if I keep my left yeah, left brain completely occupied, then that will just kinda like I don't know. I don't know, d just distracts me from from having to deal with stuff. Yeah.

Megan [53:45]: Mm. Mm-hmm. I think it'll do something. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. I mean, spending all my time not all my time, a lot of my time working on this new Misophonia project feels so much more fun than being in my therapist's office sitting with the feeling of what misophonia feels like, you know? Yeah. But

Adeel Ahmad [54:13]: Mm. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's very easy to frame it as like, Hey, I'm helping people, so you know, don't don't make me go back to that therapy office where I have to cry. I'm helping people.

Megan [54:19]: Uhhuh. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Which I do think I'm doing both, and I do think I can help people because I'm trying to really go through it as I'm working on it and I think I've like found some things that feel really meaningfully helpful. So

Adeel Ahmad [54:32]: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, right, right. And right, I'm being I was being a little facetious, but there there's a point there, but you're right, yeah. It you are there there's a balance, but I feel like not I don't not everyone's aware of that balance. I think a lot of people are just kind of don't realize that there there might be some underlying busy work happening. well f

Megan [54:41]: Yeah. Yeah. Totally, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can be like I know I know it's ten PM and I'm still working on my new Missophonia website, but that's what I wanna be that's what I wanna be doing right now. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [55:03]: Yeah. Ten PM. That's that's I would I don't even start half my side projects by ten PM. Those come later. Wow. Yeah. well fast. No, I again I I can't I c yeah, I'd love to I'd love to promote that that stuff when it comes out. That's that's awesome. Well what I mean we're getting close to about an hour. we've said a lot

Megan [55:26]: Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [55:28]: Hopefully like our mutual friends, Kresta and and Sarah, you can kinda come o come on in the future. Maybe you know, you can come on and after you've had some of the you know, Safe Sounds Club stuff happening, we can talk about what you know, what people think about it. But anything else you wanna kinda share?

Megan [55:40]: Yeah. Yeah. Hmm, I don't think so. I just I when I first started working on my misophonia, I went to an audiologist and then I met with Sarah Beidler for a few sessions, Baric for a few sessions. and I remember both the audiologist and Sarah saying, like, we need more people to work with misophonia, and I was like, No, like I don't want to be anywhere near that.

Adeel Ahmad [56:12]: Yeah.

Megan [56:15]: And I think it feels really sweet that I am seeing it as a really meaningful portal to work that is so important. and I'm really excited to be setting up my Safer Sounds Club stuff to have a space for people who are like curious about their nervous systems and what can be different. so I'm just really jazzed about that lately. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [56:35]: Yeah. And are you gonna do that? last question, are you gonna are you gonna do that through the like as an official therapist or is it more a guide?

Megan [56:45]: Yeah, I'm gonna offer it to people across the country. So it's a coaching group. yeah, so anyone I mean, I think I could offer it globally. and I'm gonna offer it in like eight week portions, so you'll be with the same cohort of people for eight weeks. and try to start them every once in a while. 'cause I think there's a real need for it. Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel Ahmad [56:47]: Yeah. Coaching. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah, yeah. Cool. Well, Megan, yeah, great to meet you. Great con great conversation, hopefully the w yeah, one one of many and yeah, thanks for coming on and sharing these amazing insights that I think people need to hear more these perspectives. So

Megan [57:15]: Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This was so fun. I love nerding out about this stuff. I know. Forever. Yeah, I know. Yeah, thank you.

Adeel Ahmad [57:28]: we could go we could go even nerdier. So yeah, yeah. All right. And cut. yeah, honestly we