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Adeel Ahmad [0:00]: little just kinda intro. So Emma, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here.
Emma [0:02]: Okay. Thank you so much for having me.
Adeel Ahmad [0:07]: Yeah, so yeah, I I usually like to ask people kind of roughly where they are, what they do, but sorry, I I coughed and I'll have to remove that. but yeah, I don't know. Generally, yeah, kind of roughly where where you liquidated, kinda what you do and we can kinda go from there.
Emma [0:16]: You're good. Yeah, no problem. so I'm thirty years old. I'm from western New York. I I grew up, you know, in the tundra. I moved to Florida after college, so into the tropics, and then right now I'm in New Mexico. So I'm in the desert. I've been in, you know, all all three climates. and you know, that that has its own set of challenges. But I I'm definitely here for the layperson today. I'm not in any fancy industry. I I work in a cafe, I'm a barista, so
Adeel Ahmad [0:39]: nice. nice. Nice. awesome. Yeah, no, thanks. Thanks for that. Yeah, you've definitely moved moved around. I'd love to yeah, I'd love to hear about those differences. but maybe I know you have notes, but you know, curious, you're in New Mexico now. I guess, yeah, what's your Misophony environment like these days?
Emma [0:59]: Yeah. boy, we can start there for sure. I mean I didn't I didn't move to New Mexico specifically for mesophonia reasons. There were other ones. I mean, moved to Florida because I had the opportunity, really loved it there. But things were just getting a little weird over there. Florida is kind of its own its own world and the natural disasters were getting crazy, prices were going up.
Adeel Ahmad [1:26]: Yep. he owed. Think you may have cut cut out there. Yeah. I after you said prices are going up, it just kinda cut off maybe maybe the
Emma [1:39]: Sorry. really? Is it all right now? How's that going?
Adeel Ahmad [1:50]: Yeah, yeah, I heard I heard this is it right now. So yeah. It's I guess it's gonna keep going.
Emma [1:53]: Okay, perfect. All right. Sounds good. yeah, prices are going up and the natural disasters like insurance, things like that were getting crazy. So we we just wanted to go somewhere because I'm really into the sunshine, so we wanted to go somewhere a little bit, you know, more more cost effective. And I'll tell you something. I mean, the United States is a huge place, but the culture shock moving from the East Coast to the Southwest was I I had no way of anticipating that.
Adeel Ahmad [2:01]: Yeah.
Emma [2:23]: New Mexico, I mean, I'm in a metro area. We're not in the middle of nowhere. And New Mexico's a beautiful state. It has a lot of history, it has a lot of great things about it. And I was real excited and real optimistic when we came here. But there are things that if you are a mesophone, you're gonna wanna know that no one was e would even think of telling me.
Adeel Ahmad [2:43]: Mm. Interesting. I've visited Santa Fe once, so yeah, I'm kinda curious what what's different about New Mexico.
Emma [2:55]: Yeah. There is a very big car culture. And when I say car culture, yeah, to some people that means, I've got a nice cool car, I bring it to car shows, I show it off, I work on my cars, I restore That's what I thought car culture meant. But around here, what it actually means is we modify our pipes, we straight pipe it, we have the rice rocket bikes, we have
Adeel Ahmad [3:00]: really? no.
Emma [3:22]: All the loud engines, we have the subwoofers, we have everything is loud all the time. You cannot walk outside for two seconds without hearing the world's loudest engine right next to you. And no one like I did a lot of research before we came here because that's just the kind of person I am. No one mentioned this. They didn't it they just didn't even think to. And if I had known that.
Adeel Ahmad [3:34]: Boy. Yeah.
Emma [3:51]: it it would have changed things, but at the end of the day, the the fireworks as well, which I'll I'll get I have a whole story about fireworks later, unfortunately. But it's it's one of those things where you feel a mix of feelings because misophonia brings a lot of emotions with it. It brings a lot of anger, it brings a lot of resentment and it brings a lot of guilt. And the the guilt is is the big piece here because I felt like I made such a huge mistake. And I also felt like I just can't
Adeel Ahmad [3:57]: Hmm. Mm, mm.
Emma [4:20]: acclimate. I came here and I I did my best to kind of fit in. And it's just an inherent mismatch, which is so difficult to come to terms with. Like I just don't fit in here because of this condition that I have. And it's something I can't get past right now. So that's that's been I mean, in terms of severity, I know some people they're they're all the way up to a 10. They just cannot do
Adeel Ahmad [4:38]: Mm-hmm.
Emma [4:50]: Any they cannot cope whatsoever. There's nothing that works long term. I'd say I'm like six and a half to a seven on the severity scale, but in terms of everyday life, when the triggers are as constant as they are, it's very, very, very difficult, especially at night, because there's there there's a lot of street racing in this area as well. And that's that's loud and dangerous.
Adeel Ahmad [5:10]: Wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's unfortunate. Yeah. My I guess my stereotypical thinking of New Mexico is just like, you know, big deserts and hippies and but not not everywhere, I guess. yeah. Yeah.
Emma [5:15]: Yeah. Mine too. No, not in the metro areas. Santa Fe might be different. Santa Fe is a little bit I mean that's the capital. They got they got some different things going on. I've been there a few times. I think they still experience some of it, but where I I I'll I'll be totally transparent, I'm in Albuquerque. So things are very, very different there, I would say. It's got its own it's got its own lifestyle.
Adeel Ahmad [5:37]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. Okay. yeah, well I mean, yeah, I'd love to hear to hear more about yeah, what how life's life's been like, but we could also I'm always curious to rewind back to early days, kind of when you first started noticing misophonia.
Emma [6:10]: Yeah, absolutely. so my earliest memories are going to be surrounding a photograph. And it's it's it's a very pivotal photograph in my life because it it came up years and years and years later after it was taken. And my mom would pull out this photograph, you know, that you got printed from an old Kodak, and she would say, this picture is so funny because This was you throwing a tantrum in the back seat of the car. And it's a picture of me in the mid like curled up into a ball in the back seat. And I have a blanket pulled down, white knuckle, over my head. And I I saw that photo and I didn't exactly remember the ex the the perfect, you know, snapshot of what that day was like, but I knew as soon as I saw that photo, I said I wasn't throwing a tantrum. Someone was chewing gum in the front seat.
Adeel Ahmad [7:06]: Mm-hmm.
Emma [7:08]: And I had the blanket pulled down so tight over my head because I was trying to do anything. I must have been like less than 10 years old. I was trying to do anything to to escape it. And so this picture that was supposed to be so funny because it was supposed to be like, here you are thrown a fit, it was actually a little bit sad because I was like, you you captured one of the earliest moments of me being unable to cope.
Adeel Ahmad [7:15]: Yeah. Yeah.
Emma [7:33]: And I think about that picture a lot. I actually wish I had it. I should ask her. I'm I'm visiting my hometown next week. I'll ask her if she has it and I'll see if she'll give it to me. yeah. But in terms of school, I I feel like I was very lucky in the beginning because my triggers were condensed to a very specific list. So the earlier triggers, which obviously I still have, things like whistling, chewing and cracking gum.
Adeel Ahmad [7:34]: Yeah. Yeah, that would that would be interesting.
Emma [8:03]: Which I learned that my grandmother on my mom's side actually also really, really hated this, but it seemed like it was an isolated thing. Big big issue with finger snapping, crunching of things like chips, tapping on steering wheels, any kind of tapping. the earliest effect, it didn't really affect me that severely in the beginning. I was able to sit in class, I was able to cope, especially in the earlier grades. school's kind of unique in the United States because especially back then, this would have been in, you know, the early 2000s, things were a little bit more lax. And when you're in third grade, second grade, people aren't really chewing gum. Like kids aren't really chewing gum in class. So that wasn't really an issue yet. It was more an issue when I'm riding in the car with my parents. And during lunchtime, I didn't have I don't remember having issues with that. A lot of people ate school lunches. It didn't really come with many trigger foods. specifically eating, it needs to be in a very, very quiet environment where I'm really picking up on those sounds. And I feel very blessed for that because I know eating is a huge problem for a lot of people. but the whistling was crazy and the finger snapping was crazy. And the very first issue I had was when I was in about fourth grade. my hobby.
Adeel Ahmad [9:15]: Mm-hmm.
Emma [9:28]: And my my club at school was I I played the trumpet. And I was really into playing the trumpet and I was really good at playing the trumpet. And I probably would have stuck with that for a lot longer. But then one day I noticed that in the band room when we were doing our practices, two things were happening, and all of a sud they had been happening the whole time, and I just didn't notice. All of a sudden I was like, What why is everyone tapping their feet to keep time?
Adeel Ahmad [9:56]: Mm.
Emma [9:57]: And I couldn't look away from it. I couldn't, I could feel it in the ground, I could see it out of the corner of my eye. And all of a sudden I couldn't break away from it. And even worse than that, the teacher snapped his fingers to keep time. So I all of a sudden was like, This is this is just I cannot deal with this. This is unacceptable.
Adeel Ahmad [10:14]: Mm, mm-hmm.
Emma [10:22]: And being as young as I was, I didn't have the language to describe why or even how this was so bothersome. And I eventually just had to stop taking classes. I just couldn't play the trumpet anymore. And that was the very first loss or thing that I had to give up because of those symptoms.
Adeel Ahmad [10:36]: Yeah. Right. And you were enjoying it, right? It's not like it was a difficult environment. A around that w what was kinda like home like life for you? Were were you starting were do you remember getting triggered at home as well around that time?
Emma [10:47]: yeah. Yes. It it was more minor because I I'm an only child and we had we had a two story house. I spent a lot of time in my room. I was very creative. I mean I still am, but I did a lot of drawing. I did a lot of reading. I played a lot of games. And I just had my own private area. So I I was able to isolate myself to the degree where this didn't really affect me. And historically for me, and I think for a lot of people with this condition, they find that if you are able to get that distance
Adeel Ahmad [11:01]: Mm-hmm.
Emma [11:28]: you usually are able to cope better. It it's when you keep aggravating the triggers that you start losing that ability to cope. So I was able to get that distance. It was difficult in the car. It wasn't really that bad. My parents didn't didn't have a whole lot of triggers. But my mom did a lot of the driving. That wasn't really a problem. But one of the big things, especially as I got older, was my mom would had picked up that I really didn't like the sound of crunching chips or like pretzels, things like that. So she would always joke, Hey I'm about to be crunching. You might want to go to your room. So even just the word crunching became its own little, it was a gag. And of course, you know, being the the time that it was, I didn't know that I had a condition. My parents didn't know I had a condition. And, you know, you've mentioned this, and a lot of other people have mentioned this on the show, but for A lot of us, our parents just thought that it was, you know, teenage angst. I just don't like what you're doing. I just I just don't want to be around you type thing. which was not the case at all. It was just I couldn't do it. And, you know, shout out to my parents. They they had no idea. They did not go out of their way to, you know, make fun of me for it or anything like that. I mean, there had been a couple occasions when they I remember.
Adeel Ahmad [12:31]: Yeah.
Emma [12:48]: someone being frustrated with me and they would put in a piece of gum because they knew it bothered me. And that was incredibly hurtful. But that's not something that happens now because we know what it is. But it wasn't like a huge no no one was blowing up at each other or anything like that. Mealtimes were not necessarily stressful times. They didn't even last very long. It was usually just me and my mom because my dad was at work a lot of the time. He works in the restaurant industry. So I I don't have any resentment for that. I had
Adeel Ahmad [12:53]: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Emma [13:17]: a fairly easy time growing up. And in my early years of school was not a huge problem. It was kind of when things got to the later years of school that it was becoming more of a problem. So talking more middle school and high school especially, I was becoming, you know, your your brain's developing, you're becoming a whole lot more aware of your environment. And the trigger list starts to grow. So
Adeel Ahmad [13:40]: Yeah.
Emma [13:47]: We start seeing other triggers like s popcorn, which was not a problem. That was considered like a softer sound. I could deal with that. I could go to the movies. All of a sudden, I couldn't go to the movies anymore. And that was like the one thing my dad and I did. And and I remember thinking to myself, like, what why do I keep losing all these things? What what is happening to me? specifically silverware on glass. I don't really have many issues with most cutlery. In my house, we just
Adeel Ahmad [14:01]: Mm.
Emma [14:15]: We we use plastic, we use silicone, things like that. So like a silverware on a plastic plate just doesn't produce the same sound. I don't even process it. But silverware on glass, like a pyrex bowl, absolutely not. That's not happening. things like, yeah, it's a tough one. It's a tough one. We have someone at my workplace who brings in his own food, and I see this man walk in with his little pyrex bowl.
Adeel Ahmad [14:18]: Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Emma [14:41]: I gotta step to the back of the house because I think to myself, I'm about to have one hour at least of of having to deal with this and I just can't I just can't. You know, I I try to make jokes about it, but inside I'm just fuming. I'm like, you're I have to like I have to work and you don't even know that you're making it so impossible. God. But yeah, I I'll definitely get into that. the effect on the workplace. That's that's gonna become the big one. I've got a story for for that for sure.
Adeel Ahmad [14:59]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emma [15:09]: But basketballs, that's a tough one. I used to play basketball in my driveway all the time, it never bothered me. And then I got to Florida and the neighbor had a basketball hoop. And I just I couldn't I couldn't deal with it anymore. And I think a lot of it is when you're doing something that's causing a trigger sound, like when you eat, for example, or when you move a part of your body, your brain already knows that it's happening.
Adeel Ahmad [15:20]: Mm.
Emma [15:39]: It has that predictability to it. There, in my opinion, is some level of the unpredictability of the sound that contributes to the severity of the reaction. That's been my experience with it. So this like hollow bouncing sound was just suddenly unacceptable. the clicking of keyboards and mouse, mouse clicking that isn't a silent click. I only have a silent mouse right now. You wouldn't even be able to hear it.
Adeel Ahmad [16:07]: Mm-hmm.
Emma [16:08]: Like the list, it just kept growing. And with the growing of the list, we have the growing of the things that we lose. So all of a sudden I can't go to the movies. I lose the one thing that I do frequently with my dad. I need earbuds everywhere I go just in case. And class is even more problematic because you know, in in up to 2013, because that's when I graduated high school. You're you're not gonna be going up to a teacher and saying, Hey, I have this condition, I don't even know what it's called, and I need to have earbuds in class. They're not gonna let you do that. That like that we didn't even have wireless earbuds readily accessible at that time. to the point like I had I had wired earbuds primarily and headphones, that's it. So I couldn't get those accommodations, I didn't even know how. And by that time it wasn't worth it. I was about to leave. So I just suffered through it and I remember Specifically taking a test one day. I don't even remember what it was. I think it was someone like spinning their pen in their hand or something like that. That was one of the first times that I was on the verge of actually having a panic attack because I could not focus. And I was done with the test. I asked to go to the restroom. I just stayed in there until class was over. And I was like, What in the world is happening? How
Adeel Ahmad [17:19]: Mm. Okay.
Emma [17:32]: And and that's when you start having these these moments, especially when it's growing in severity over time. How am I gonna live? How in the world am I going to exist in this world? Like people can't even handle being inconvenienced in this world. And I can't I can't be around this this laundry list of sounds and and and visuals. It's it's insane. You feel crazy. So that continued throughout college.
Adeel Ahmad [17:38]: Right. Right. Mm.
Emma [18:02]: you know, people, it's even more lax, it's an even bigger lecture hall, and you're living with roommates. my god, you're living in one room with another person. It's I I and I I I was an only child. I I always had my own room. So there's that element too if you think to yourself, man, I I feel like I'm being so.
Adeel Ahmad [18:17]: Yeah.
Emma [18:29]: Petty because I can't even handle having a roommate. But after a while, luckily at my school, you you could pay to have a single room. So I did that. And that was absolutely blissful. It was worth every single penny to upgrade to have my own room. Because you you just there's a point where you you just have to, you know, you don't really have the option anymore. So I I muddled my way through.
Adeel Ahmad [18:47]: Mm-hmm.
Emma [18:58]: College. And I was lucky to leave when I did because things were just getting more difficult as I got older. And I think a lot of people share that experience where it's just slowly getting more and more difficult. And the longer you stay in the kind of environment where you have zero, zero control. I mean, even in college, I when when I was starting to have the language to describe this, I went up to one of my professors and I I basically told her, hey, I have this condition. sometimes in class I'm gonna need to wear my earbuds, which were wireless at this time. And I can still hear you. I need to have white noise in so that I can focus on what you're saying. And she said, yeah, no problem. I I totally get you. And I feel like not even a week later, I did exactly what I told her I was gonna do. And in front of the entire class, she she points to me, she goes, Emma, take your earbuds out. And I just really slowly just looking at her, take them out and think to myself, I I can't I went out of my way to explain myself to you and you didn't listen to me. So and I can't imagine this is something that people were coming to her with very often. So it it felt like I I advocated for myself for one of the first times ever, and I just forgot. And I thought to myself, what a luxury to be able to forget. Cause I don't get to forget ever. You know what I mean?
Adeel Ahmad [20:11]: yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Did you did you r did you talk to her again about it? Or just said F U and okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Emma [20:40]: I I actually don't remember. That was a difficult class for sure and I was happy to see it end.
Adeel Ahmad [20:50]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, no, th thanks for that amazing overview. and yeah, you're right, you're right. I mean, a lot of the s sounds that we make, I think because our brain doesn't assign a threat to it, that we can make a lot of these sounds or visuals and are not so bothered by it. and yeah, so it's it seems like for you for you a lot a lot of the A lot of these triggers and sounds were actually were not in the home, which is not unheard of. I mean obviously a little bit in the in the home and and in the car. But but yours is yeah, very much focused on your educational and work environments, I guess. Leaving the house and yeah, heading out heading out into the to the modern world. what did your friends think? Did you reach out? Did you tell anybody? Did you confide in anybody as you were going through school?
Emma [21:24]: Right. Yes. So I did not have a hu a wide circle of friends growing up. I was very independent. I had two people that I hung out with, and some of the time it was only one of them. And she knew, but I mean, both of us being just teenage girls at the time, her priority was not necessarily remembering my triggers. So it wasn't a huge consideration, but I was able to muddle by, you know, I was able to get through it.
Adeel Ahmad [22:08]: Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Emma [22:18]: And it wasn't frequent enough that it caused any kind of rift. I think if I I mean I'm gonna be meeting up with her next week when I when I do visit home, but I think if I were to re-explain it now, there's a better understanding of the fact that this is a condition. More people have talked about it, more people have heard about it. And I also am able to explain myself a lot better and put my foot down with it instead of saying, hey, this is a preference I have. It's this is an accommodation I need.
Adeel Ahmad [22:22]: Mm-hmm.
Emma [22:46]: It's not a preference. It's not a weird, it's not, you know, when people describe it as, you know, so-and-so doesn't like this sound. It's not, it's not a matter of not liking it. You know, it's a matter of I I can't handle it. I can't be around it, it causes pain. So, you know, in terms of how many people I needed to have that conversation with, the list was, you know, you could count it on one hand, which meant that the problems were not.
Adeel Ahmad [22:48]: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Emma [23:15]: very prevalent, which is again very fortunate. And that was probably one of the major benefits of not having that large social circle at the time. And that has persisted to the present day. I kind of am a little bit I keep to myself a lot. I do hang out with people, but I try to I try to suss out who's gonna be someone who's safe to be around and someone I can have this conversation with and whether they're gonna be someone I can trust.
Adeel Ahmad [23:23]: Yeah. Yeah, people can be overrated. but yeah, though I'd love to hear kinda like how you how you go through that process, but but but yeah, before we kinda leave your your childhood house, I was kinda curious if if you wanted to i if I may ask, were there any other kind of like comorbid conditions that you remember from from around that time? And if you, you know, got tr tried to seek out any professional help for for misophonia or or anything else.
Emma [23:45]: Yeah. I'm so glad that you bring that up. That's that's actually later in my list. But I I do have pretty severe OCD. I'm diagnosed with OCD. that manifested in in the band class that I that I talked about, same, same exact class. So things started happening around the same time. Of course, I wasn't diagnosed with OCD because it didn't present so typically. I wasn't diagnosed until I was 19. So I went through
Adeel Ahmad [24:19]: Mm-hmm.
Emma [24:42]: most of my life not really know knowing I had these two very distinct but very problematic issues, not knowing how to describe them, not knowing what was going on, but O C D was a huge, huge part of it. And I think that there's a lot of over overlap there.
Adeel Ahmad [24:59]: How do you mean it didn't present itself normally?
Emma [25:02]: So normally for that time when I was as young as I was, I wasn't doing the typical textbook things or the movie things, like, you know, washing my hands or doing a lot of counting or checking a lot of things. A lot of it was mental. I had a lot of the, you know, the intrusive thoughts, the mental rumination, the taboo worries, things like that. And I remember, you know, anyone who's familiar with O C D, this is going to sound familiar. If you're not, maybe not. But I would go up to my parents and I would be like, I just, I I was sorting, you know, the change jar at my friend's house, and I don't remember if I stole money from them. Like I could not prove a negative in my mind. I couldn't, I was having false memories. I was having these worries that, you know, if if
Adeel Ahmad [25:42]: Mm.
Emma [25:54]: I was catastrophizing if my mom didn't show up to pick me up after school right away. I was worried the worst would happen. I was starting to panic at the after school programs, things like that. I was worried that, you know, people were gonna hurt me or my family or that someone in my family was like secretly evil, things like that. And my parents only really knowing very, very little probably what they saw on TV about O C D, they would never, ever think that's what it was. And I didn't either 'cause I was eleven. Yeah.
Adeel Ahmad [26:23]: Well T V's always right, so Okay, so they yeah, so they didn't so this is around run eleven that you're that these things were presenting. Okay. And did they eventually seek out some kind of help? talk to doctors? Yeah.
Emma [26:33]: Yes. Yes. Yes. It they I mean, bl bless their hearts. They really did they were thrown for a loop as much as I was in in my own head. They wanted to do something for me. They just didn't even know where to begin. They just it was just the my kid is worried. It was always that I was worried. And I went to the guidance counselor at school. And I don't really remember much of what was said there, but I remember my mom did not want me to continue talking to this guidance counselor because of course it was school based. And the guidance counselor would not tell my parents anything about what I was talking about in that room. And I mean, in some ways, maybe that's a positive thing because of confidentiality. But at the same time, I'm a child and I also
Adeel Ahmad [27:24]: Mm.
Emma [27:34]: I don't know what's going on. My parents don't know what's going on. And they're not even giving them anything to work with in terms of getting me any help. So they said, okay, we're not going to do that. and I did eventually, you know, after that, I think we just didn't really seek it out any further because I got better at internalizing it. When I was very young, yeah. When I was very young, I was always reassurance seeking and that was very visible. I was always sitting down and
Adeel Ahmad [27:55]: Masking or yeah, yeah.
Emma [28:04]: quote unquote confessing things like bad thoughts that I had or bad words that I was thinking. And then as I got older, I was able to I say it like it's a skill. It it's it was more a coping mechanism of I don't want to do this anymore. I'm going to internalize it. And I just carried it with me and I didn't tell anyone about it. So my parents probably thought that I was it was a phase. It wasn't. I just privatized all of it because the
Adeel Ahmad [28:21]: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Emma [28:30]: The obsessions I had were evolving so rapidly into things that I didn't know if I could talk about. Like if you look at the International O C D Foundation's list of common mental obsessions, it was getting into the territory of the taboo thoughts. I I couldn't vocalize that. So I didn't. I carried it until I was nineteen. And then I told someone at my college counseling center, and for the first time I spoke those words out loud that I thought I'd never say to anyone. And she just nodded at me.
Adeel Ahmad [28:46]: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Wow.
Emma [29:00]: And goes, Yeah. And I remember being so baffled, I was like, Th you you know you know about this? This is a thing you've heard of? And she goes, Yes, it's actually very common. my mind was blown.
Adeel Ahmad [29:12]: Interesting. So it's tell just a little bit more about the yeah, the going back to the the high school counselor because a lot of people are, you know, are looking for accommodations in high school. But I I I haven't heard I hadn't heard and I well I've I mean I've heard about this in other situations where they won't tell parents about certain things, but but you went to the counselor first and then they would not talk to your parents about what you were telling them.
Emma [29:40]: Yes, I have very, very limited memories of this. I don't even remember this person. I don't remember what we spoke about. I mean, and that was pr I probably have as much information as my parents ended up having. I have no idea. It couldn't have been anything crazy because I didn't have any deep traumatic secrets about my home life or anything like that. And I definitely would have would not have spoken to this random person about any of the very severe like taboo thoughts I was having.
Adeel Ahmad [29:43]: Okay. Yeah. Mm.
Emma [30:09]: having I wouldn't have said that to anybody. So I I have truly no idea what we talked about or why she wouldn't even give my parents any guidance for finding professional help outside of school, which is what I needed. So that that really could have been anything. But I don't blame them for taking me out of it because clearly w we had no direction there.
Adeel Ahmad [30:09]: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So how did you so then how did they so your parents eventually found out that you have O C D or or or sorry, it wasn't until you were nineteen in college. Okay.
Emma [30:41]: Correct. I had to tell them. And I remember I invited my mom to campus because it was an hour away from home. And I sat her down and I basically told her, hey, you know, this is what's going on. The way I found out that I had OCD and I brought that information to the counselor was when I was having this terrible, terrible episode visiting my dad in Florida. I was so overcome by these thoughts and these feelings. of just the most intense degree, that we were at Disney World and I was a zombie. I can like I cannot stress that enough. It was like walking in a dream. I could not eat. I could not do anything except sleep. I could not talk. And eventually I just I was starting to do the Googling thing where I was just, I just needed to figure out what the heck was going on with me. And I saw, you know, that aligned with OCD for the first time.
Adeel Ahmad [31:18]: Mm. Yeah.
Emma [31:39]: And even though I was so deep into it that I didn't get that wave of relief that some people get when they, they make that connection. It was more just like, I guess this is a place to start and that ended up being what it was.
Adeel Ahmad [31:49]: Yeah. At that point were you Yeah. And at that point was w were you thinking about the misophon more misophonia symptoms as well, or or was it very much focused on these kind of the O C D side of the house? Very much. Yeah.
Emma [32:07]: Very much focused on O C D. That that has been the driving force in in my life. That even even right now I am kind of on the tail end of genuinely the worst episode I've had because I I took Certralein for this for ten years when I was diagnosed and I recently tapered off of it. And it's been it's been a very, very difficult experience doing that and the increase in in symptoms.
Adeel Ahmad [32:11]: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Emma [32:36]: Not necess surprisingly enough, not of misophonia, because my what happens when you do that is your nervous system's completely out of whack. Like you just when you taper off, yes, and when you're off of it officially, it's been just over two months now that I've been officially off of it. And I've been very surprised to find that my misophonia symptoms are pretty much the same. They're the same. I mean, I'm in a very controlled environment.
Adeel Ahmad [32:46]: When you tape her off? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Were they the same the whole time in the in the in the ten years, would you say?
Emma [33:06]: Yes, outside of some very, very specific spikes that were kindled by specific things happening or being in an environment where the triggers are constant. So for example, last July for the fourth of July, I say that like it's a day. It's not a day here where I live right now. It's a couple months. every night, every night, as soon as the sun even starts going down, it's fireworks.
Adeel Ahmad [33:10]: Okay. jeez.
Emma [33:36]: Constantly. I was losing my mind. It sent me into such a spiral. I do you mind if I tell the story about what I tried to do to cope with that? So this is the fireworks story.
Adeel Ahmad [33:38]: yeah. Go for it, please. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if by the way, if anyone's listening and is triggered by stories of fireworks, this is your warning. But yeah, please continue.
Emma [33:55]: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. so I was trying to leading up to the fourth of July, I was starting to realize, my God, it's been a month, it's not even the fourth of July yet. I can't even imagine what the actual day is gonna be like. I've only lived here for about two years now. This was my first fourth of July here, and it was it was looking bad, and I did not know how I was gonna cope. And a lot of the things that I'm about to tell you that I did. They really do tie into OCD and preparation and things like that. But I was desperate to do something to not lose my mind entirely because I was already on the verge of losing it. So I was researching, I was looking at places we could go. I was thinking we could go, you know, rent an Airbnb in the middle of nowhere. We could go hang out at a rest stop in the middle of nowhere. Cause like you said, New Mexico is the desert. There's a million places where there's no one around for miles. That's the beauty of it.
Adeel Ahmad [34:46]: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Emma [34:55]: Not in the metro area. I had to do something to get out of the metro area, or I wasn't gonna be able to cope. That's what I thought. So I I went on Reddit and I made a post and I said, Does anyone have any suggestions? Because I I am not the only one who doesn't like fireworks. There's gotta be someone who does something, even just because they don't like it. I was willing to take any ideas. And people said, Hey, you know, the mountains are right there. Drive up to the mountains because you can see.
Adeel Ahmad [35:12]: yeah.
Emma [35:24]: The fireworks from far away, you can see the whole city. It's very beautiful, but you can't hear them. And I said, you know what? That's a great idea. And that seems to be what everyone's saying. So I'm gonna do that. So I took my partner, I took my roommate, we got into my little car and we chugged up the mountainside before sunset. And I was not the only person with that idea, I'll tell you that, because the whole city was on that mountain. And not only the whole city.
Adeel Ahmad [35:51]: boy, okay.
Emma [35:54]: But their own little car show and bike show because yeah, people were taking their bikes and zipping up the mountain and zipping back down the mountain and zipping back. And I was like, my god. And this is a dangerous mountain. There's it's it's a very steep climb. There's a lot of twists and turns and blind corners. And these pe like people die on this mountain constantly because they're taking these bikes and they're just zipping up and down, and they just do it all day.
Adeel Ahmad [35:59]: right.
Emma [36:24]: And you know, you you see nature and you think to yourself, that's where I go for peace and quiet. Not so, not so on this day. Because we got to the top of the mountain, we we hiked through to a a little bit outwards. We we just wanted to go sit like on a rock overlooking the the city. And even from that far out, we could still hear people revving their engines.
Adeel Ahmad [36:51]: Hmm.
Emma [36:51]: all the way over in the parking lot. And I thought to myself, what in the world? Where am I? Like what is happening? and I said, you know what? It's fine. It's perfectly fine. I have my headphones. And I'll talk about my headphones later because those headphones are saving my life. I'll tell you that for free. we sat there, we watched the fireworks, and sure enough, with my headphones on, I was writing in my journal. I couldn't really hear them. It was great.
Adeel Ahmad [36:58]: Yeah.
Emma [37:20]: But it got dark and it got cold and it got late and they were still going strong down there, like you could see it. And I thought to myself, okay, well, we can't stay up here forever. We have to work tomorrow. It's nearing midnight, it's nearing 1 a.m. So we hike back, and it was really easy to find because all you had to do was follow the sound of the car engines, and you could find your way back in the pitch black. It was awesome. So We're walking back. We get back to the parking lot, and I climb the little staircase to sort of get into the parking lot. People are only just starting to clear out, but it's still pretty crowded on the edge. And I don't use the word traumatic lightly. But what happened next was traumatic. I'm walking up this little staircase, and all of a sudden I hear this screech, this hiss, and I look up.
Adeel Ahmad [38:05]: Mm-hmm.
Emma [38:19]: And right right over my head, giant firework explodes. Now, I just want to clarify, we're not on pure rock. This mountain where the crest is is a national forest. And this is, you know, the engines are one thing. Anyone can do anything anywhere with those. You can take those pieces of you know what anywhere you want, but you can't do that.
Adeel Ahmad [38:36]: Mm-hmm.
Emma [38:49]: With the fireworks. You can't set off explosives in a national forest. Or so I thought, because here it is happening in front, like two feet in front of me. I I don't even know what was my head just completely blanked out. And the people around me, you know, they reacted, they gasped, but no one really said anything except one woman shouts, You're gonna start a fire. And this group of guys laugh at her.
Adeel Ahmad [38:54]: Right.
Emma [39:19]: And say, Well this is the best place to do this.
Adeel Ahmad [39:19]: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Emma [39:24]: I have never like my my faith in humanity has slowly declined over the years. The chunk that that took out that day was irreparable. And then I hear them talking. They're not even locals. They're they're kids from out of town, probably t twenties, who are just stationed at the nearby Air Force base. So they're not even locals. They just came here to be destructive and laugh about it. And
Adeel Ahmad [39:30]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm. Yeah.
Emma [39:54]: I to this day haven't fully recovered from that. But I s I when we got back to the car, I sat there in silence. Like you could feel that like human beings should not be emitting the kind of energy that I was emitting in that vehicle. It was evil. And I waited until every single person left that mountain and I was the last car to drive down.
Adeel Ahmad [39:58]: Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emma [40:22]: And by the time we got back into the city, it was like it was 10 p.m. It was past 1 a.m., but it felt like everything had just begun. And I went home and I had one thought in my mind, and it was the same thought that I had when I first moved here. And it was, I tried my best and I failed spectacularly. That could not have gone worse. I like you you do something to help yourself. You do everything you can. And to fail to that degree, my God, the hit to your mental health is insane. So
Adeel Ahmad [41:02]: Yeah, there must have been guilt there and all all those everything you yeah, you mentioned at the beginning. That's yeah, that sounds that is that is a difficult situation and but it exemplifies yeah, I mean w some of us are have that empathy and sensitivity and others don't. And f for the former, for us, we're we have to be on guard, we have to be vigilant. And that's I think what a lot of misophonia is.
Emma [41:10]: It was so bad. Yes.
Adeel Ahmad [41:31]: Even if you the symptoms show up an er as an early age, there I think is a background sensitivity that extra sensitivity that that many of us have. And I think that's if it's biological, it's it's n necessary for the species to survive. At least some of us can't we can't all be that those guys from out of town.
Emma [41:52]: Exactly, exactly. And you know, that's the one thing is that even through the guilt, even through the anger, even through the shame, pe sometimes when you have these conditions where you're so hyper-vigilant or you have these reactions that are so automatic and they feel so disproportionate to your values, you you start to see yourself a certain way. And people in my life
Adeel Ahmad [42:13]: Mm.
Emma [42:17]: Constantly surprise me when the topic comes up of like, you know, these are the kinds of people I like. They always say, you know, I I very much respect you because you care about other people. And when you have musophonia and your reaction to sounds on an everyday basis is, my God, I can't stand this person. I hate you. I I hate what you're doing. You don't really always see yourself as someone who cares about other people, even if your outward actions show otherwise. So I always struggle with that because the perception.
Adeel Ahmad [42:27]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. you're not the only one.
Emma [42:47]: Yeah, yeah. The perception people have of you, I've come to realize, is in s and in some ways it's good, it is the bigger reality. So if you are able to act in a way and present yourself in a way that people do perceive as caring and kind or empathetic excuse me, or empathetic, or anything along those lines. It it challenges that identity that you internalize of I'm so mean, I'm so reactive, I'm so cynical. And at the end of the day, both of those things can be true. Because we're not cut and dry people, we're not cartoon characters, we have complicated inner worlds, and then we have our outer projection. And that's hard to remember. But I will tell you one thing in terms of the fireworks, because as you know, it's August now. We've seen another fourth of July, haven't we? So
Adeel Ahmad [43:22]: Mm-hmm.
Emma [43:41]: I did something a little different and I actually did it in accordance with what you do for OCD. And this 4th of July, instead of preparing and running away and doing everything I can to escape, I did nothing. I stayed home and I put on my headphones and I did what I've learned in the past year, which is to just have an extra layer of like white noise while I'm watching videos. And I fell asleep in my headphones and it was fine. I didn't need to run away. I didn't need to put myself through that. I didn't need to put my partner and roommate through that again. And it was fine. And this this year was not as bad with the fireworks. I will say that. It was marginally better.
Adeel Ahmad [44:26]: Well that's surprising with the two fifty, the whole all that jazz.
Emma [44:30]: my god, Adil, let me tell you something. When I remembered that it was the anniversary this year, I thought I am capital D doomed. It's over. Like I'm never. God. I thought I was going I thought this was the end. I was like, all right, this is my last meal. It's over. But it was fine. And that's the crazy part, is you can't always predict it. And you live and you learn. And I also now know that.
Adeel Ahmad [44:40]: gonna be another Los Almos in
Emma [44:59]: The headphones that I have that I have since bought and really learned what works for me and I'll talk about them later, they went a long way. So it's not comfortable to sleep in headphones, but it is possible when you're suffering that much to do it, and you you will make it through. Like it is possible.
Adeel Ahmad [45:15]: Yeah. Are they no noise cancelling? Like what what are they?
Emma [45:20]: Yes, I'm not an influencer or anything, but I can tell you what I use. Is that all right? all right, so I have it written here. I have that's fine. So they are the Anchor Soundcore Q30 Hybrid Active Noise Canceling.
Adeel Ahmad [45:24]: sure, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll make fun of them just to make embalance, just you know, so Yes, yes. Yeah, I'm actually I'm actually I'm I'm yeah not paid by Anchor, but I do have a bunch of Anchor products because they're they're they're actually good and they're way cheaper than, you know, apples or bows or or whatever. So yeah, I I I I like Anchor as well. Yeah.
Emma [45:45]: Yeah. That is a huge deal is the affordability because you you hear a lot of stories of people who spend thousands. I was just listening to one of the recent episodes, someone who spent thousands on on, you know, specialty headphones or noise canceling machines or hearing aids, things like that. I once tried to pursue that. Luckily it didn't work out because I don't think it would have helped. But sometimes all you need is a modern pair of run of the mill. headphones with noise cancelling because these ones have three settings and I'll tell you the most surprising thing about them. I mean, before this year I hadn't been to the movies in years. Like I just gave up on that. But there were some movies I really wanted to see this year. And I
Adeel Ahmad [46:36]: Mm, mm-hmm. Most of sucked though, which I'm not not s that's not surprising. But yeah, there are a couple couple come up that are good once in a while. You have to ignore all the sequels, yeah. Which is a decline of culture, but that's another podcast. Mm-hmm.
Emma [46:43]: Yeah. Exactly. And you know, we had a couple winners. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. 100%. But we had the backrooms this year and I said, I am not missing the back rooms. I want to see that. So I brought my headphones and I said, What's the worst that can happen? I I can't deal with it and I walk out. I do that all the time. I mean, let's try it. So I had my little setup and I didn't try to do anything too insane. I had my headphones. They have di three different settings for noise canceling. And I had I have Spotify Premium because my workplace provides it, so I could have constant white noise without ads. And I tested the settings in the theater and I had the white noise on in the background and I tried to be very polite about it. I set everything up ahead of time so I don't have my phone screen on throughout the movie. And to my absolute surprise and delight, I could hear the movie. Granted,
Adeel Ahmad [47:20]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Emma [47:41]: It's a little bit of a dull experience because yes, you can hear the voices, but the soundtrack's a little muffled. It's a little bit I tried one of those closed caption devices. It didn't work. It's fine. I could still hear it. I couldn't hear anyone around me. I couldn't believe it. I didn't think this was even possible. And I was able to sit through this movie and have, you know, a slightly degraded but still very pleasant experience. And
Adeel Ahmad [47:54]: Mm-hmm.
Emma [48:11]: I got to sit in the theater with my friends and have some snacks and watch this film on the big screen. And that was amazing. It was I can go to the movies again if I mean if I really, really want to. It's still going out of my way, but I can do it. So I don't have to my world opened up just a bit that day. And that was great.
Adeel Ahmad [48:34]: Yes. Yeah, there's a bunch of bunch of important things here, that are are worth yeah, they're worth worth talking about. First of all, yeah, I mean I think the one common thing between this and the the fireworks situation this year is just your I mean I can hear in your voice just the you took a more assertive attitude in in in you know, engaging with the environment, let's put it that way.
Emma [49:01]: Yes.
Adeel Ahmad [49:02]: Yeah and and especially w it was I mean obviously w you know the movie thing a lot of preparation. may or may not have been influenced maybe a little bit by you by the O C D but but in a in a very pos in a in a very kind of beneficial way to you. but the but the fireworks thing you know, it didn't seem like that stereotypical O C D thing. It was very much like you y instead of just kind of going into fane, you you just kind of like
Emma [49:13]: sure.
Adeel Ahmad [49:30]: It it almost kinda and I know like with OCD exposure therapy is is kind of one of the ways that therapists get you to cope. But this was kinda like what I'm kinda hearing about or what what I'm talking about a little bit more with misophonia is not you know, not running away, but not purposely just kind of punishing yourself. You kinda like thought about it beforehand. That probably lowered the kind of like I don't want to say stress level, but the the the signif the s the the you know assigning the danger, yeah, having your brain assign the danger to the fireworks. you're you're just kind of prepared for it. And you had your coping mechanisms that you could use to the extent that you needed them. So I think you know, these are part of the the themes that kind of help people, and I talk about like on the podcast, like you know, a little bit of self talk before you enter a situation to just kind of remind yourself that nothing is going to, you know, kill you. you're not outside when the fireworks going on over your head, you're at home. and I that I feel like that that's the kind of thing that can kind of like really change a situation. And it seems like it it did help this year. You're in a familiar environment, you're at home, you were prepared, you knew what was gonna happen, and you just kinda like
Emma [50:40]: Yeah.
Adeel Ahmad [50:54]: Asserted yourself and and engaged with the with the sound.
Emma [50:59]: Yes, yes, I I did. And I didn't try to do anything that was so over the top that if I were to be unsuccessful in mitigating the problem, that I would have yeah, it it would have just the shame and guilt would have compounded because that's what happened. You know, you put in all this effort and sometimes that that is the unfortunate truth is that it's not enough to solve everything. And that's okay.
Adeel Ahmad [51:07]: Yes. Yes. Thank you for mentioning that. Yeah. That is actually v yeah, you know, that's interesting. after all these hundreds of episodes, that's something that we I haven't really saw seen framed in in that way, is that if you try to go out of your way to use all these technologies and and drive, you know, hours away and whatnot, to move your life, you could be setting yourself up for a major letdown, which could have an even more consequential
Emma [51:49]: Yes.
Adeel Ahmad [51:52]: Even even accommodations, like accommodations at school or or work or whatever, if obviously, you know, it's it's a mixed you need to you need to think about it beforehand. Obviously things can help, but you need to be aware that it could not go the way you want and have a you know, yeah, a worse effect. Like like in your case, fireworks going off over your head. I mean, that was like something you still can't shake off.
Emma [52:22]: No, absolutely not. And it's something that I never would have been able to predict. but what I would have been able to predict, which again, I I don't fault myself for trying. I was very desperate and it felt like the right thing to do. Like when you're so desperate, you want to do the best, the the most you can think of to protect yourself. That's how we're wired. But sometimes, and this is kind of an interesting thing about how OCD and Misophonia overlap.
Adeel Ahmad [52:26]: Mm right.
Emma [52:48]: Because the coping mechanisms are different. Exposure therapy is not necessarily going to be something you want to do for mesophonia. So that's different. Right. But some of the mental exercises that you do, such as, well, let's try not to, let's at least try because, you know, we we're already here. We don't have, we're not going to lose it all. Let's try to see if we can compromise. There's a lot of compromise. Let's try not running as far away.
Adeel Ahmad [52:56]: Not O C D type right exposure, right, right, right.
Emma [53:17]: Let's try a couple degrees of distance instead of the maximum amount of distance. Let's see if there's something we can do that is just a little bit closer to home or even at home to deal with it. Because it's like you mentioned, and I've seen this a lot, you know, on on the Misophonia subreddit as well. People express a lot of so some people end up Doing exactly what we all say we're gonna do. We're gonna move out to the country, we're gonna go to get farmland, we're gonna move to the mountains, and we're gonna be away from everyone forever, all the time. And sometimes people find that that is not the answer because there's the people who live out there, there's hunting grounds, there's a lot of farm equipment that makes noise, there's a lot of wildlife that makes noise, and sometimes that is still not the answer, and that is really the greatest example of I did the maximum amount I could and it still wasn't enough. And those those stories have really touched me when I've read them because I felt so horrible seeing people go to the greatest possible lengths. And it still it didn't it didn't fix it. It didn't fix it to a degree that was even livable for them. It might have helped a couple of things, but the the the problems just transformed. And yeah.
Adeel Ahmad [54:36]: Yeah, th it's a great it's a great it it's going to great lengths, but at a very it's a great length at a very superficial level, no offense to anybody, but that's something that we all kind of like learn at some point. I'm yeah, go on.
Emma [54:50]: Yes, yes. And yeah. I was just gonna say, shout out to them for, you know, trying because we all have those moments where we say, I'm literally going to leave it all behind and move into the middle of nowhere and we don't do it. But some people have done it and they have come back to us to say, Hey, guess what? It didn't fix everything and I can't believe it. And they they d they did that legwork for us to say, man.
Adeel Ahmad [54:58]: Yeah, of course. Yes.
Emma [55:19]: So even the most extreme thing we can think of isn't always the answer. That is that is wild, that's hard to cope with.
Adeel Ahmad [55:25]: Or it's I mean it could be the answer, but it it's usually part of a larger puzzle.
Emma [55:30]: Yes, yes, very much so. It didn't fix at all, you know. It didn't fix at all.
Adeel Ahmad [55:36]: so yeah, we're yeah, getting to be yeah, as you can see it kind of flies by. We're getting to about an hour. I I I guess I'm also kind of curious what your maybe maybe I I don't I don't know if you want to get into like one of the reasons w maybe why you went off the O C D medication, and wh are you pr supplanting or replacing that with with anything with anything else and are you planning to do anything specifically for misophonia therapy wise or
Emma [55:42]: Yeah.
Adeel Ahmad [56:06]: Or whatever.
Emma [56:07]: sure. so it was actually a pretty complicated lead up. I was switching jobs, I was between insurances, and I s hadn't established with a primary care provider since we moved. Everything was just kind of in an in-between state. So I wasn't able to get access to the refill. And it had been so long. I mean, ten years is a long time, you know, you find out today to be on an SSRI. And I thought to myself, well, let me give this one more try. Let me see. Because, you know, even when you're on it, like I had that episode with, you know, everything happening, which eventually turned into an O C D spiral. The fireworks from last year it ended up Yeah.
Adeel Ahmad [56:33]: Yeah. If I work thing, yeah, you could you're right, you were must have been on medication, yeah.
Emma [56:53]: So I thought to myself, maybe at this point in my life I can I can just see what it's like not taking this. And I think a lot of people who take this kind of medication for a long time, they have that that notion to like, well, let me see if I can remember what life is like without it. And I obviously I had to do it myself. And this is not medical advice. I'm not a doctor. I didn't have a PCP at the time, but I did the best taper plan that I could think of. I did it, you know, over the course of weeks. Now I know that it should have been months. But it was pretty much an access thing and just I might as well try. And looking back, it should have been longer, but it wasn't cold turkey and it wasn't incredibly short. So I did the best I could. And I it's very, very complicated. I mean, I am not anti-medication. I found a lot of benefit from being on it. And again, everyone's physiology is different. Some people can take this for 30 years, come off of it in two weeks, and they're fine. that was not necessarily my experience. I had a lot of, you know, neurological symptoms. I had a lot of physical symptoms, you know, the stomach upset, things like that. And an increase in the anxiety that is associated with OCD because, you know, none of this is cured. It's not curable that we know of. So it was just an uptick in those symptoms. But I've been going through this for so long that I said, you know, I'm I'm gonna stick it out. And I've been riding those those waves ever since. I had a period of about two weeks that were really rough. And I feel like we're kind of reaching the end of the the worst of it. And it's it's been difficult because we don't really know a whole lot about the process of coming off of these medications.
Adeel Ahmad [58:46]: Yeah.
Emma [58:46]: There's not a whole lot of guidance. There's not a, you know, a really hard and fast protocol for it. And I don't think a lot of people, even in the medical profession, are prepared for helping people through this. So it's kind of just people leaning on each other with their own personal experiences. And again, that's not to discourage anyone from taking anything. If s there are people out here who are like, I I've been on this for life, I will be on it for life, and it saved my life. And I'm I'm super happy for them. It was just a personal, a personal choice for me, for sure. But it's complicated. It really is.
Adeel Ahmad [59:17]: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. No, cool cool. yeah, thanks for sharing that. Yeah, 'cause yeah, people are always wondering, yeah. Medic medical med medication interactions and and those kinds of choices. well yeah, I mean s like I say, yeah, we're we're getting we're actually we're just about the hit an hour of the recording. you've got notes. yeah, and and don't hold back, but anything else you wanna you wanna share?
Emma [59:28]: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, one one big thing at the end of it. And that's too like I said earlier, like there's if you if you're an extrovert and you want a big social circle, that that's amazing. And I mean, that's not the kind of person I am. I I would imagine if it were that I would have a lot more legwork to do in terms of explaining myself and making sure that everyone's safe to be around. but having people in your life and the people you live with that are understanding.
Adeel Ahmad [59:50]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emma [60:16]: of your situation and willing to hear you out and willing to accommodate as as best as they can because I know some things aren't always possible, but being understanding when you do your own things to accommodate. I've been with my partner for almost seven years now. And the benefit that that we have is that he he is autistic. So he has his own sensory things that he already inherently understands. So when I come to him with my situation and how I need to cope with it, especially when you have seven years to work with it. He has been an absolute lifeline. He is so incredibly understanding. He when we're in a situation where things are kind of ramping up in public, he'll even kind of give me an exit sometimes. He'll be like, hey, do you want go stand outside for a minute? And he'll give me that that un unspoken or implied permission to walk away from a s a sound that might become problematic. Just having those people understand, like we we're together in silence sometimes. We just hang out in the same room with our headphones on, doing our own thing. He tells me if he's gonna be eating, if it's super quiet in the room and I can put my headphones on. He doesn't take it personally because it's not personal. And he understands that. And my roommate's the exact same way. He's he's a very like to himself kind of guy. he spends a lot of time in his room, but even in the in the times that I've had to say, Hey, you know, there's this thing, like You know, there's this thing with misophonia, would you mind? And he he is immediately like, Yeah, absolutely, I understand. So finding other people who understand, even if they're not neurodivergent, but it definitely helps because of that lived experience, having people close to you in your life who are willing to hear you out and who do have that level of empathy or sympathy for you, it is invaluable. You you cannot go without it. My life would be so drastically different if I were with someone who took it. incredibly personally or who got offended or who who didn't understand and didn't want to and I my heart goes out to the people who find themselves in that situation because it's it's got to be so, so difficult. It is so important for people to understand.
Adeel Ahmad [62:26]: Yeah, no, it's great. And let's let's think about the the poor partners of those guys on the hill last year who were doing those fireworks.
Emma [62:37]: Yeah. I was like, God, people I could never I could never have in my life and it's like they're so d my god, it feels s it's so wild. It's so wild.
Adeel Ahmad [62:46]: Yeah, yeah. Well well w let's not think about those guys anymore. Let's let's let me let me just say thanks. Thanks to Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well th thanks for sharing yeah, thanks for sharing this yeah, amazing story. Covered a covered a lot of a lot of ground here. and yeah, this is this amazing and it's gonna help a lot of people who yeah, who have misphonia obviously, maybe have some O C D and even autistic traits which is which is not not uncommon. These are all
Emma [62:50]: No, they're gone. They they're gone they went back to where they came from, I'm sure, by now. Yeah. Yes.
Adeel Ahmad [63:16]: in the same sphere. no fantastic to hear about your your your experiences but also your your thought process. I mean that this is this is why I do the show. So it's great to hear that you've really thought things through and I think that's part of what's hopefully I think helping you.
Emma [63:18]: They are. Yeah, that that was the goal. I I wanted to make sure that I just, you know, I had my points and I that this is this is for the everyday person, you know, that that's who we are. We're just people trying to live our lives out here and support each other. And this podcast is one of the only resources besides the book that you and Dr. Jane Gregory did, that I have found that have been consistent. And I I wanted to contribute however I could. Absolutely. So thank you for for hosting it.
Adeel Ahmad [63:39]: Yeah. Awesome. And cut. And that's kinda how I know to edge.