André Felipe - A Podcast Producer's Battle with Misophonia
Transcript
Adeel [0:00]: Welcome to the Misophonia podcast. This is episode 7 of season 3. My name is Adeel Ahmad and I have Misophonia. I've had the privilege to talk to Misophones from all over the world over the past year, but today I have my first conversation with someone in South America. Andres in Brazil happens to be a podcast producer and is of course suffering from Misophonia. He's also a highly sensitive person, a term that has come up in some previous podcasts. We talk about that. We talk about cultural differences in Brazil and how they affect misophonia. We get really deep into how Miso has scarred family relationships. And we also talk about self-triggers, which is something that Andre says is definitely a thing with him. Don't forget to check out the new website, MissiphoniaPodcast.com, which has all the podcasts and soon some of the text chat interviews that I've been having with people, as well as transcripts whenever I can get them done. Let me know what you think in the contact form on the site or email hello at MissiphoniaPodcast.com. I'll be launching a blog on the site too, and I'm looking for people to contribute articles. If you're interested, hit me up. And while we're on the topic of contacting me, you can follow on Instagram at Missiphonia Podcast or Twitter at Missiphonia Show. All right, let's get to this. It's one of the longer ones, but well worth it. Here's my conversation with Andre. Welcome, Andre. Welcome to the podcast. Good to have you here.
Felipe [1:35]: Oh, it's great to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
Adeel [1:38]: So, yeah, we were just talking that, you know, you've heard a number of episodes. So, you know, that curious kind of where where my guests are located. You want to you want to talk about that?
Felipe [1:48]: Sure. I am from Sao Paulo, Brazil. It's a huge city in southern Brazil. I was born and raised here and just never left. I'm in my mid 30s. And I at this point, I don't even know if I can see myself living elsewhere.
Adeel [2:05]: Oh, great. Yeah, that seems like a great part of the world. I have not been to South America at all, but yeah. Yeah, I'd love to hear about how it is from a sound perspective, but I'm curious kind of like just kind of what you do there in Sao Paulo. I heard you have a podcast, I believe, as well, right?
Felipe [2:24]: Yeah, I actually work on several different podcasts. I've been doing this for several years now. I... I had a major in communications in college, and then I got a degree in art and culture. So I've been focusing, I've been trying to focus my work on being a music critic, and also I've done, you know, I've worked on television, been a television producer, and I have done podcasts for... Wow, I think my first podcast was in 2005 and then I didn't work in audio for a whole while and then I started working again a few years ago and now I'm working on four different podcasts.
Adeel [3:11]: Wow, that's awesome. So that's your full-time gig now is basically producing podcasts.
Felipe [3:15]: My full-time gig is having several different gigs. I just jump from one to another all throughout the day.
Adeel [3:22]: Yeah, I'm a big fan of that strategy. It keeps you diversified, keeps the money coming from different sources.
Felipe [3:30]: Exactly.
Adeel [3:30]: From my perspective. Yeah, obviously it keeps things interesting, but there are some financial and freedom benefits to that.
Felipe [3:39]: Yeah, I'm a very curious person. I just love, you know, learning and getting to know people and just being everywhere I can be and, you know, doing several things at once. So this is I believe this is the right job for me.
Adeel [3:53]: yeah no that's very cool that sounds really interesting i got to talk to people for a living you know i got to talk to very interesting people for a living so well that's cool um and you know talking to people is uh obviously bringing it to a mississippi talking to people can kind of be hit or miss do you kind of like uh you kind of basically vet people by You know, whether you think they're going to be problematic misophonia-wise or are you ever like get into a conversation with a fascinating person and it's just like a hellscape of sounds?
Felipe [4:28]: Okay, so I think I could be talking to the most interesting person in the world, but then if I get triggered, I am triggered, you know? Mm-hmm. So, yeah, that certainly is a challenge.
Adeel [4:44]: And this is kind of your livelihood. So how do you deal with that?
Felipe [4:50]: I just go with it. What can I do? Yeah. You know, like as I was telling you before we started recording, sometimes I'm editing a podcast and I have to hear over and over again the same sound and it's torture, right? it really is torture, but I don't think there's anything else I can do. I just have to push through it. And I get, I live by myself. So sometimes I get to, I don't know, yell, you know, I get to scream sometimes. Yeah. Um, but not when I'm, you know, working at night, my neighbors wouldn't like that, but yeah, I don't know. You do what you gotta do. And I am certain, well, listening to your podcast that, um, that is very certain how every job has its challenge for someone with misophonia. And this is one of my challenges in my job when I'm talking to people and people trigger me with their sounds.
Adeel [5:52]: Yeah, I mean, you're right. It's hard to find a job that's going to not be somewhat, you know, have some triggers. And it's great that you're in a position that you love what you're doing so much that you can push through. That's a good place to be.
Felipe [6:09]: I agree. I agree. Yeah. But yeah, like interviewing people, sometimes it's hard to keep a straight face.
Adeel [6:18]: Oh, yeah. And are these face to face when we're allowed to be face to face or are they video? Okay.
Felipe [6:26]: Most of them used to be face to face. Some of my interviews, because I also do interviews that I then write and publish. So some of them are by phone, but many of them are face to face. So sometimes it's just really hard to keep a straight face.
Adeel [6:46]: But again, there's the visual triggers potentially.
Felipe [6:49]: Right. Yeah. And those as well. And this is something that I feel like I got to say right up front. I am very triggered by mouth noises, but sometimes I feel like I can be even more triggered by nose noises.
Adeel [7:05]: Yeah, you mentioned that in kind of when you first reached out to me. Yeah. You were asking me about that and wondering if anyone had mentioned that because you hadn't heard about that. Do you want to talk about that without, you know, obviously getting deep into the descriptions of the trigger? Do you want to talk about that? Because it seems like something that's not super common.
Felipe [7:25]: Yeah, which makes it even worse, maybe. But the thing is... the very same way I feel when I'm triggered by a mouth noise. I get when I listen to a noise from a nose like when people are blowing their nose when they're sniffing. Sniffing is a nightmare for me.
Adeel [7:50]: um well sniffling yeah i mean actually sniffling is is pretty yeah that's that's a pretty i think that's that's the one for me as well uh if it's repetitive if it's over and over if it's something that's kind of like one and done then not so much how about you i don't know um the thing is i don't know if it's a cultural thing i could be completely wrong but i feel like it's a cultural thing especially from certain areas in my country
Felipe [8:20]: um because this is one thing about brazil the country is too big so the culture changes from one area to another drastically but i live in a huge city with people from everywhere not only from the country but from the world and i feel like people from certain areas all this is insane but some people sniffle louder than others
Adeel [8:45]: Yeah, well, it could be, yeah, it could be just what they've observed from family members or the community or something. Yeah, I do feel like, yeah, and sometimes it could be my brain telling me this, but sometimes it seems like any of our triggers feel like they're just kind of being done casually or as a tick when... You know, people should just cut it out. So is the sniffling like, are they, do you feel like, you know, there's natural sniffling, like if you have an illness, but are you talking about this happening just kind of like casually as kind of part of the part of the culture?
Felipe [9:24]: yeah and really loud ones i i have observed how that happens some people just i don't know just to fill some blank time fill the blank yeah yep yep they will do that and that that really that really pisses me off and it's the same reaction i get on my body um than i get from watching someone eat for instance when they they chew with their mouth open obviously um it's a mixture of i don't know being disgusted and being angry and just wanting to flee you know right just not wanting to be there yeah
Adeel [10:08]: Yeah. And so are these triggers that you've had your entire life? Like going back to, you know, you said you were born and raised in that area. So are these like lifetime triggers or did you start with, you know, with something more basic, like some family triggers and they kind of expanded to this?
Felipe [10:28]: I really do fall into the cliche of like hitting puberty and then being triggered by family first and then others. Is my dog being too loud? I can.
Adeel [10:39]: Oh, no, it's fine. That's fine. It'll be under the brown noise. Yeah.
Felipe [10:42]: OK, so I do remember being about 12 and then not standing. First, it was my family and I am pretty sure nothing was ever their fault. But then again, at the same time, I was very triggered and I didn't know how to communicate that. But then it was closely followed by like schoolmates. And it's been following me around ever since for over 20 years now. Yeah, right. And it's just been kind of growing and growing as it kind of does. Oh, yeah, yeah. I don't think I noticed that until I listened to the podcast. I was like, yeah, it's getting worse. I do believe it's getting worse. And maybe, I don't know, maybe this is just an assumption, just a possibility. Maybe it's because now I live by myself and I get to be sheltered most of the time. Then when I'm out in the world, when I'm out with people, maybe, I don't know, these words are quote-unquote louder. because I'm not used to them anymore.
Adeel [11:51]: Right. I mean, I've talked about that. I mean, I've discussed it on a number of shows where we try to tell people, hey, it gets better. You have more control over your environment as you get older. But yeah, it is a double-edged sword because you can totally protect yourself And then you go out and it's like, you know, who are these mofos? Just kind of being as loud as, yeah, just being disgusting. So, yeah, that's an interesting dichotomy, interesting kind of paradox there.
Felipe [12:21]: Yeah. And I feel like for most of my life or, I don't know, for most of my teenage years when I first started, um i feel like i could hide behind a wall of just good manners you know why why are you making noises with your mouth are you making noises with your nose like this is not good manners and i could hide behind that um and it wasn't until i was it's fairly recent that i came to the the term misophonia to this you know um how can I say this, to learn more about it and just learn that this is a real thing. It was not just me being weird or me being difficult as I assumed my whole life. I was a difficult person, that I was just different but in a bad way, a negative way.
Adeel [13:21]: Yeah. And how did did you did that lead to any kind of like, you know, like the shame and guilt that we have about like, why are we doing this? Why are we why are we kind of we're angry, but why are we You know, the years of being angry at other people for something that seems like it's not a real thing can kind of lead to a lot of that shame and guilt. Did you feel that as well or did you just, I don't know, somehow avoid that?
Unknown Speaker [13:48]: 100%.
Felipe [13:48]: I 100% felt that because also on top of everything, I'm a highly sensitive person.
Adeel [13:57]: Yeah, I want to get into that later too, but yeah.
Felipe [13:59]: Yeah, which also is something that is somewhat recent in my life, the realization of it. But yeah, so I was not well equipped to handle my misophonia yet. And because, well, who's well equipped when you're 12 to do that. But then on top of that, I would react negatively to my surroundings. And then I would get, I don't know, my surroundings would be negative towards me back. And then that would create a lot of shame and a lot of resentment. Even, yeah, anger.
Adeel [14:45]: So you're talking about like with family members and friends and whatnot? Yeah. Yeah. So was it affecting kind of your social circles in school or outside of school? Like were you kind of maybe a loner or maybe you had friends, but they started to kind of like, you know, split off as you started to get triggered? Like, I'm just curious how social, you know, your friend circle was.
Felipe [15:11]: I'm a very sociable person. i am very introspective in how i process my feelings and how i process everything but i am very outgoing so i've always had lots of friends and like i said i always thought i was the problem quote unquote you know so um i just i just had to take everything in you know so did you were you just bottling everything up Oh, yeah, 100%. Like, what can I do? This is how people are. And there's something wrong with me if I cannot just tolerate them, you know?
Adeel [15:56]: But you said, I think, did you say that you were lashing out at certain times as well? Like, did you have moments of anger?
Felipe [16:02]: Yeah, especially, I think, when I was very young, when I was, like, 13. I would just tell my family like, hey, you taught me manners. Why can't you just have manners, you know? Gotcha, yeah. But then that's something I could never tell my friends, for instance. Yeah, dude. But then again, I think this is a cultural thing. This is a cultural difference I get from listening to people from different countries in your podcasts because I feel like in Brazil, the way people are – people are very sensitive in Brazil. So if I come up to you and I go like, hey, what you're doing is triggering. Is it okay if you don't do it? The person will hear me saying, hey, you are doing something that is bad for me. Like you are a bad person. So I could never just, I could never tell anyone to not do something because that bothers me.
Adeel [17:04]: You know, I think that's tricky everywhere. I mean, I think that's come up here as well, where where people are like, well, how do we frame it in a way that that doesn't sound accusatory? That sounds more like I have this it's more like, well, I have this condition and, you know, it happens to be triggered by the things the thing that you're doing is kind of how people. seem to be more successful in framing it um because yeah i think i mean i think in many cultures if you just tell people hey you're you're hurting me they will um um you know they will not react in a good way if it's just a sound yeah people get defensive right like no this is nothing i'm not doing anything what are you saying exactly yeah you're crazy exactly um So I'm curious. Oh, yeah. I'd like to kind of talk about HFHSP again, a highly sensitive person. So you said you just kind of realized that recently. How did that, is that, why don't you define that and kind of talk about how that relates or doesn't relate to misophonia?
Felipe [18:15]: Yeah, of course. Being a highly sensitive person means that you actually feel more. Your feelings are usually stronger. The way you relate to your surroundings is just more intense. I believe she's called Samantha, your guest, who was also an HSP a while ago. She explained it beautifully, and I recommend everyone to listen to that episode. Um, so I, last year I was struggling with several different things, um, mostly because of stress, mostly because of anxiety. And I ended up going to a psychiatrist who then recommended me to go to a psychologist. And then all throughout that journey, the term HSP came up. And then I just read more about it, I researched more about it, and I took the test. And if I'm not mistaken, the test has 27 questions. And if you score, like, they're like true or false. And then if you say true to over, I don't know, I think 15 or 19, you're likely a highly sensitive person. I scored 23. So, yeah, I truly am a highly sensitive person and I never even knew that existed.
Adeel [19:44]: So... Where do you think that comes from? I mean, have you thought about it? You said you're very introspective. I'm curious. I'm sure you must have maybe thought about whether you were always like that or whether that developed at some point.
Felipe [19:59]: Yeah, well, what research shows today is that it's something that's just how your brain is wired, sort of like misophonia. Yeah. So that's just how your brain is wired. You were kind of born with it. So it just comes from my DNA.
Adeel [20:20]: Yeah. And did you ever think about it as being the reason for your misophonia? I'm curious if you ever thought about them together.
Felipe [20:29]: I have, but I discovered Misophonia first. So I just feel like they go hand in hand. And that combo is just very destructive.
Adeel [20:42]: Yeah, I'm wondering, do they kind of reinforce each other?
Felipe [20:46]: Exactly. Yeah, I don't... I wouldn't assume that everyone who is a highly sensitive person has Misophonia, especially because... uh 20 of the population is highly sensitive so that's a huge number yeah it's a huge number and i don't know the percentage for misophonia but i know it's much much lower
Adeel [21:11]: yeah do you any do you do anything for the uh i mean what do you what do you do for a highly sensitive it's just the way it's just something you have to deal with or do people uh take medication or anything or therapies um i'm just curious if it's considered like if it's if it's considered a mental health issue or if it's um just a way to describe yourself I'm going to ask dumb questions.
Felipe [21:37]: No, no, no. These are not dumb. I'm just feeling dumb because I don't know how to answer them. But what I know is that Dr. Elaine Aron, the woman who came up with the term highly sensitive person, she describes it as a personality trait.
Adeel [21:53]: Oh, okay, gotcha. Yeah, but yeah, it's... Not as much of a disorder as more of a... No, it's not a condition. It's not a condition. A trait that can definitely be tough sometimes, it sounds like.
Felipe [22:07]: Yeah. It has its perks. Like that's, that's the way psychologists are always trying to tell us like, Oh, this is a superpower because you have more empathy towards people and you enjoy art more. And I'm like, okay. But at the same time, when someone yells at me, I just completely shut down, you know?
Adeel [22:30]: Yeah. So, so what do you feel when they're like, um, you know, I'm curious to a couple of examples of, of what, what you, what you feel, um, If somebody yells at me, I want to punch... Well, I don't want to do anything about it, but I kind of want to... You know, I don't necessarily feel sad. Well, unless it's something I did. Yeah, I guess I'll shut up. Yeah, I'm curious what... You know, how do you feel in certain situations?
Felipe [22:52]: Yeah, I understand what you're saying, and I would never judge you for wanting to punch someone because some people just deserve to be punched. Right. However, what I experienced is that... This has a lot to do with misophonia at the same time. I don't know. They do go hand in hand. I meant they do go hand in hand. Sorry. What was I going to say? Right. Being a highly sensitive person from birth means that the way my brain developed is that it's always alert. It's always just very ready to fight danger, any sort of danger and even emotional danger. So my mom has lots of stories of me just bursting out crying when I was little, even from like watching cartoons because someone got hit by another character. And I would just have this weird empathy towards, you know, cartoon characters going like, Oh, they didn't deserve to, to, to get punched. That's not the guy who deserves to get punched, you know? So, uh, I would just cry watching cartoons that were made to, you know, to make you laugh. Um, but yeah, I, I'm sorry. I thought I, I think I lost track of the question. What were you asking? What was the original question?
Adeel [24:28]: Oh yeah. I was just asking like, how does, yeah. How does HSP feel? Right.
Felipe [24:31]: Right. Right.
Adeel [24:34]: But yeah, but what you were, what you started to describe about being alert all the time and being extra, that sounds very much like, you know, part of a description of misophonia.
Felipe [24:44]: Exactly.
Adeel [24:46]: You are, you know, your, yeah, your brain, your, your, your hearing is so ready to, especially when you're stressed out, so ready to attack that you are kind of how you, you know, you're highly sensitive in that regard. Yeah.
Felipe [25:03]: And I wish I could explain this better, but if anyone is into neuroscience, I am. This is a fun read, but when you research how your brain operates under danger and how the amygdala reacts to danger, I feel like being a highly sensitive person, that is just enhanced, you know? And that is why so many people who are HSP are prone to depression and anxiety because we're always very alert and we're always just fighting back. Right. Right.
Adeel [25:44]: Do you do you feel when you're HSP, do you also feel the positives in a more intense way as well?
Felipe [25:52]: Like I think so.
Adeel [25:54]: Laughing happiness.
Felipe [25:55]: Yeah.
Adeel [25:56]: Love side is also true.
Felipe [25:59]: Yeah, I think it was Samantha, again, the guest from the second season. She said that the world is just louder, but I feel like the world is also more colorful, and it has, I don't know, more intense smells and tastes. I don't know. The thing is, I usually am the person enjoying things the most. you know like if i go i don't know we go out to dinner like in a group of friends and i'm always the one who is the most excited about the food you know and then we go we go to a music concert and i am the one who is enjoying the music more you know the most so that's how i yeah that's that's the positive i guess but i tend to lose track of those because the Unfortunately, that's something I have to work on, but I do lose track of those because the negatives are just more intense sometimes.
Adeel [27:08]: Well, I was going to say, I'm picturing you going out to dinner, great restaurant, you're just loving the food, can't get enough of the food, so happy you're on top of the world, and then you're triggered.
Felipe [27:22]: Exactly.
Adeel [27:23]: And so what happens then? I'm thinking the term bipolar comes to mind. I'm wondering, is that completely different? Just being on top of the world at one point and then being at the depths of depression at another. It's different than that. It sounds like one's a trait where you're just within normal emotions. You're not turning narcissistic or anything. You're just feeling them a little bit more strongly. That's kind of what we're talking about here, right? Yeah.
Felipe [28:00]: yeah i think so and and then again this is my experience and i understand that everyone will have their different experience um but there was another guest from another episode i will never remember his name but he said something that made me laugh out loud because i never i had never put that into these words but i relate to it 100 he said he keeps track of how all his friends eat And I was like, yeah, that is exactly me. I can describe to you how every one of my friends eat. And I feel like a jerk when I say that.
Adeel [28:36]: But that's true. So does that then affect, like, you're a super social person and you go out to eat a lot, you have lots of friends. Do you kind of, like, do you kind of decide when you're going out with somebody who you're going to invite? Or how does it tactically work for you? You know, you keep track of that, but, like, how does that affect your day-to-day before you get triggered? I don't know. I think... Or you just do what you do and then you get triggered.
Felipe [29:08]: Yeah, I think that's the most likely scenario.
Adeel [29:11]: It just starts over again. Maybe the next day it kind of resets.
Felipe [29:14]: Yeah, but then again, I might have, you know, stronger bonds with people who will not trigger me as often.
Adeel [29:23]: Gotcha. Okay, this is what I wanted to hear. Yeah, yeah.
Felipe [29:25]: Yeah. I don't know. I remember... Like, I remember friends who triggered me a lot, and I'm not close with them anymore. So maybe there's a relation there. I don't know. And when I think of the friends I have now, they... Again, maybe I'm a jerk to say that, but these friends, they have good manners. I don't know. They wouldn't do anything triggering, even not knowing anything. that if they did do that, that would trigger me, you know?
Adeel [30:05]: Yeah. And so I think, again, I'm looking back in our notes and I think you said something like you weren't sure how this was going to work because you had never talked to anybody about misophonia. Have you talked to your friends about misophonia?
Felipe [30:19]: No. This is actually the first conversation I have about it. I did talk about it with the psychiatrist and the psychologist I mentioned.
Adeel [30:30]: yeah and they both were just like uh-huh yeah you do have that like as as soon as i mentioned oh okay okay not dismissive but as in i guess it's more like yes you definitely have it oh they just validated it they validated it they were like yeah that's that's you that's what you have when i started is that common in is that common in brazil that that there is that aware level of awareness amongst uh medical professionals and therapists not that common here okay i just got really lucky I just got really lucky, honestly. You had the two psychiatrists that Noah Misofoni and the whole country happened to have.
Felipe [31:06]: Maybe. Because the psychiatrist really knew what it was. But the psychologist, as soon as I mentioned Misofoni, she was like, oh, like mouth noises. She was listing examples back to me. And I was like, yeah, yeah, all of those. I have all of those. So she really knew. But then I researched. um that was not long ago like a couple months ago for some reason i researched like psychologists in my area again i live in a city where 20 million people live yeah this is a lot of people so i go like psychologists in in sao paulo who specialized in misophonia and one came up okay one came up so this is not common here like if i i feel like if i say misophonia my friends are well educated most of them are very well educated um some of them are dumb but you know some of them are dumb some of them are on my level which is dumb but um i feel like if i say misophonia to them most of them just will not know what i'm saying
Adeel [32:11]: Well, I mean, I doubt that I doubt that misophonia is indexed because it's not that well known. It's indexed in like Google so that you don't catch everybody's heard of misophonia. You know, I'm sure there's more than one. that knows about it, probably. Yeah. 20 million people.
Felipe [32:31]: Not who knows about it, but he specializes in it. He lists misophonia as one of his specialties.
Adeel [32:38]: Oh, really? Your psychologist does?
Felipe [32:41]: Not my psychologist, sorry. This one that I researched, the one that I found on Google. My psychologist, she specializes in... in lots of different things. She knew of misophonia, but she never listed that as a specialty of hers.
Adeel [32:57]: So I'm curious, what did she have to say then? Did she have any insights that were useful?
Felipe [33:03]: Not really, because we didn't really... She did ask me... how that affected my relationships and the truth is not much like what i just told you like i just i just pushed through it i just pushed through a dinner if you if you have a cold i'll just push through it you know with your with your sniffling yeah um what about the psychiatrist you uh you said psychiatrists also know knew about this funny or okay yeah but she yeah our conversation was pretty much she telling me to go find a psychologist because all my all my um the sources of everything i was going through yeah they were uh they had to be dealt with a psychologist instead of a psychiatrist which is a relief in a way Yeah.
Adeel [34:04]: Right. Right. You want to be just taking pills and stuff.
Felipe [34:08]: Exactly. Exactly.
Adeel [34:10]: Gotcha. OK. So, yeah. So you don't. So then what do you do with your friends then when they're triggering you? Is it just kind of giving them the glare or trying to. trying to negotiate some basic manners with them? Or do you just literally just kind of suddenly push through it, bottling everything up?
Felipe [34:29]: The glare is very spontaneous sometimes. Yeah. Very spontaneous. And maybe... It became stronger when I started living by myself, but I feel like sometimes the way I react is just a bit too spontaneous. I cannot keep my cool sometimes. And I mean, like, I don't know, like, like my whole body sometimes would just react, you know, and it shows. But most of the time I can just, I can just mask it, you know? Yeah.
Adeel [35:04]: Do your friends pick up on it?
Felipe [35:07]: Rarely. And then I just come up with an excuse.
Adeel [35:11]: Are you going to listen to this show?
Felipe [35:15]: I spent the last few days debating with myself.
Adeel [35:19]: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know your friends. I'm just curious what you're thinking about that. Or if you had thought about that. I'm glad you're here. I'm just curious.
Felipe [35:30]: I've been debating that. thoroughly and I still have not come to a conclusion.
Adeel [35:34]: Yeah, I mean, you're not the first person who's come on and said, this is the first time I've talked about it. I actually never asked like, hey, are you planning to kind of like tell people? But yeah, so it's just a question I'm curious about. It's yeah, I think it'd be great if I mean, it'd be great if it happens that you're, you know, friends here and they're empathic. And then I mean, wouldn't that be great if they suddenly are more accommodating?
Felipe [35:58]: Yeah, you know what I worry about? Knowing my closest friends, I worry that they would get too worried.
Adeel [36:07]: Oh, gotcha.
Felipe [36:08]: That they would be too self-conscious around me. And that is also something, I don't know, I assume people will relate to this. It's a weird position where I really don't want you to change your behavior around me.
Adeel [36:26]: but at the same time i really wish you would behave differently yeah yeah there was someone who came on recently who said that it's like uh uh yeah i think it was i think it was gill who's in uh right he's he's in uh i think he's in london or sweden or somewhere in europe but he said uh um a former um partner of his like she would start to like um be too accommodating and it would that would kind of trigger him because he was just so aware of it and somehow It would bother him as well. I don't know if it was technically misophonia, but she could be walking on eggshells and he would just, yeah.
Felipe [37:05]: I think for me, that would trigger guilt. I would just feel what I felt growing up, which is shame, which is guilt, which is why am I asking this of you?
Adeel [37:17]: How's your relationship with your family now? Is it damaged from that still? It's scarred.
Felipe [37:28]: Definitely scarred. My father has brought it up a few times. Like, I cannot be myself around you. okay recently or like it was that long time ago the last time was like eight years ago so yeah eight years ago you brought that up god yeah okay so so i don't know i feel like it's one of those things when where both parts are just hurt you know by the nature of it by the very nature of it it's not like one is guilty and the other one is not it's just the way things are You know, again, I wish I don't want you to change your behavior because of me, but I really don't want you to behave the way you are behaving right now. You know, it's it's a real challenge.
Adeel [38:16]: So then you haven't, you, so how do you, so if you're saying you haven't talked to anybody about it, so you haven't really talked to your parents about it, but it's just something that was always acknowledged, that sound.
Felipe [38:28]: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, especially when, again, when I was 12 or 13.
Adeel [38:33]: I mean, I can very much relate to what you're talking about here, especially with this text.
Felipe [38:42]: When you're 13, you're developing everything. You're developing your confidence. You're developing the way you talk to people. You're developing, you know, like you do that when you're a toddler. You learn how to talk, learn how to walk. And then again, when you're in your early teens, you're sort of like redeveloping all your skills at once. And then I felt, maybe the word is entitled, to come up to my parents and go like, hey, the manners you taught me you're not putting to use. So why are you not doing that? Why are you chewing with your mouth open? Why are you doing that? And not knowing it would be hurtful. Right. So, yeah, again, and then they would just be very hurt. They would just tell me how inconsiderate I was. And, oh, this is something I was thinking of the other day. It was something my mother told me. I don't remember how old I was. Maybe I was 14. Again, it was in my early teens. I don't know what it was that I reacted to, if she was eating or if she was, I don't know, sniffling. But she said, you think you're better than everyone else. And I could not communicate back to her that it was exactly the opposite. I've always felt inferior because of it. you know? Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Again, being highly sensitive and having misophonia combined, not knowing these things were even a thing. I always just felt inferior. I always just felt too different. And again, in a negative way. So, and I'm, this maybe plays a part in everything, but I'm the oldest child. I have a younger sister who doesn't have any of that. So there was always the comparison. Like, why are you difficult and your sister is not, you know?
Adeel [40:48]: Have you talked to your sister at all about any of this? Even the HSP?
Felipe [40:55]: No, and we're not that close. So we get along, we're just not, you know, close.
Adeel [41:03]: And were these also a factor with your sister as well?
Felipe [41:07]: You mean that she was triggering me?
Adeel [41:09]: Yeah, well, just, yeah. I mean, the same kind of issues that you had with your parents.
Felipe [41:14]: Oh, absolutely.
Adeel [41:14]: And triggers, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Felipe [41:16]: Ah, and also grandparents, also uncles, also cousins. Oh, gotcha. And again, also schoolmates. Gotcha. And neighbors, and the list goes on. Pretty much everyone I know.
Adeel [41:30]: Right. But it sounds like the relationships with your family were more scarred than, say, all your friends that you're going to dinner with now.
Felipe [41:41]: Oh, definitely. Especially because I feel like there's no arguing there. Again, when you're 13 and you're learning how to communicate yourself to the world, you know there are things you cannot tell your friends. You cannot say to your friends, but then you can say that to your parents.
Adeel [41:58]: Gotcha. So the scarring is good because, yeah, you were reacting in ways that were, you know, normal for someone, you know, at that age with their family.
Felipe [42:11]: Yeah, exactly.
Adeel [42:12]: But you bottled everything up with your friends, and that's why maybe they're, you know, it's easier because you haven't really, you just haven't brought it up with them. It's easier for the relationship. yeah but tougher on your brain your parents are always your parents and you can lose your friends by saying something back to them i think that plays a huge part in that especially when you're in your early teens you know so you find naturally selected you have a lot of friends but you've probably naturally selected ones that obviously that you can you're you're able to spend time with them and not and not have it go over over the line to kind of ruining it
Felipe [42:52]: Yeah, but then again, I do feel very drained if I socialize for too long. And maybe misophonia has a part in that. Maybe it's just the way I am because I'm introspective. Maybe it's because I'm highly sensitive. I don't know. But maybe it's also because of misophonia. Like, I will... I will go have dinner with you, and then I will just push through all the triggers, but then my energy level will be so low by the end of the night, you know? I just have to rush home.
Adeel [43:27]: I would say it was like a tension span, but I think that's also part of it too, is, yeah, just the energy level going down from triggers.
Felipe [43:34]: Exactly. And I do have a story to tell that happened when I was 16, and I think that That tells a lot about how I have handled misophonia my whole life. You know in school when kids pair up and they push their desks close to one another to work on something? We were doing that. I was 16, and this classmate of mine, she just came to my desk with her desk, and she had like a cold or something, so she started to sniffle. And I was tremendously triggered. But my desk was... Yeah.
Adeel [44:38]: Oh.
Felipe [44:49]: Oh my gosh, what's the word? It was up against the wall. So she came from the other side and I actually felt cornered. So I couldn't, I couldn't, a comprehensive narrative to just say, oh yeah, he's just too stressed from finals, you know? but no it was I could not handle what was going on and then my body was just I felt like I was melting you know I felt like I was I don't know um and I didn't have half the language I have now to explain it so I was just going like I don't feel well I don't feel well I feel dizzy I feel like I was going to faint and then people were like oh yeah you're getting more and more pale so the the The school called my parents, and I was sent home. Gotcha.
Adeel [45:40]: And did you recover pretty quickly? Like, just go get some quiet time and rest?
Felipe [45:45]: Yeah, I took a nap, and it was it.
Adeel [45:48]: Perfect, perfect. Love the nap. No one triggers you when you're napping.
Felipe [45:54]: exactly except i'm a very light sleeper but that's that's the thing i guess yeah yeah but the thing is i i never had i was never the the kid who claimed to be sick to get out of things so again i did feel something and i was i was very pale as people were pointing out so no one questioned it and i was just sent home and my family was like this is weird what do you have and i said i don't know i just i just feel this way and then everyone agreed that i was just stressed and then i took a nap and everything was back to normal you know great yeah yeah interesting no one doubted me and no one questioned what was going on and everyone was just yeah satisfied with that narrative but i never told anyone this before that was that was the real story that happened 20 years ago yeah well andre we have that girl right here with us
Adeel [46:54]: That would be quite a podcast moment.
Felipe [46:57]: I don't even know who speaks English, so that would be really interesting.
Adeel [47:02]: Right, right, right. Wow, yeah, no, that's interesting. I wonder, yeah, I'm trying to think if now if I have any memories like that. I'm going to think about that now after we hang up here. Yeah, when you don't have that language, I mean, I've mentioned this before, it probably sounds so stupid now, but I could never stand, from my first job, just could never stand eating with my coworkers. And I always thought that I was just, I always thought that I was just bored by them, which I probably was in many situations, but then it extended to jobs where I really like my, you know, my coworkers. And I feel like, you know, those that's, I was probably manifesting my miso in some way, just kind of wanting to eat by myself.
Felipe [47:46]: Oh, I completely understand.
Adeel [47:47]: Relatively early age, internships in high school, around that time that you were kind of experiencing your vertigo and whatnot.
Felipe [47:53]: Yeah, when I was getting my degree, we had classes on Saturdays, like the whole day. So we would do like potlucks. and everyone would include me and i was always trying to get out of those yeah because i wanted to eat by myself i just wanted to be by myself but people kept including me and again brazilians are super sensitive so i remember the the first time i didn't go with them this woman came up to me and she was like why did you abandon us today And I was like, that is such a strong verb to use. Please don't say that to me. I just didn't go to lunch. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But yeah, that was something else I was going to say and I forgot.
Adeel [48:41]: I did want to, you know, you have all these experiences and you feel all these things. I was curious, like, I always want to ask people about their coping mechanisms, like day to day, like, what do you, what kind of tools do you use? Is it just kind of running away, headphones? Do you have any like breathing techniques or whatever? Do you have, you know, what's Andre's kind of like tools that he uses? Good question. What do I do? I mean, for most of us, you know, it's headphones, leaving a situation.
Felipe [49:16]: I cannot not have headphones at all times. Right. Especially riding public transportation or even, you know, when I have to take an Uber, for instance. I always have to have headphones on.
Adeel [49:35]: Do you go noise-canceling? Do you have any favorite ones?
Felipe [49:39]: Not really, just very basic ones. You know those earphones that go right in your ear with a rubber thingy? Yeah. Those are the best ones for me because they don't cancel the noise, but they do... I don't know. They do work better. You know, you really can turn off many, many, many sounds.
Adeel [50:07]: If you have music playing, you don't really necessarily need to pay that. Yeah.
Felipe [50:14]: Yeah. But working in an office, I have to have music on at all times, you know.
Adeel [50:19]: So you are going into an office usually? I used to.
Felipe [50:23]: I've had several different jobs. So, yeah. Right. um even working working um at the tv station um i had to have my headphones on uh at most times and i will always have the excuse like oh yeah i focus better when i'm listening to music which is part of it is true right but then again it's mostly due to misophonia and this is something that i have been experiencing lately um and this is i don't know this feels so weird to admit this but i have been noticing that more and more i've been getting triggered by my own sounds more and more often so whenever i'm eating i have to like i eat with the tv on so i cannot hear myself and yeah and sometimes when i do i just i i don't know i feel so many things at once and it's just so frustrating it's incredibly frustrating
Adeel [51:37]: Yeah, most people, I don't feel like they... I haven't heard a lot of cases where self-triggering is a huge problem. I think a couple of people mentioned that they definitely would notice their own sounds sometimes. Because one coping mechanism that you hear about is the mimicry. It's actually making an exaggerated version of somebody who's triggering you. I've heard that a lot.
Felipe [52:06]: I do not relate to that at all.
Adeel [52:07]: I don't really relate to that, but it is pretty common.
Felipe [52:10]: Definitely common. Yeah. But no, in my experience, it's completely different. Like, no, I have to... I have to shelter myself from myself sometimes. That's interesting.
Adeel [52:22]: I hope that doesn't get too out of control.
Felipe [52:24]: Yeah, I know. I know. I promise you I have the quietest nose you'll ever find. I do. When I eat, I try to be as quiet as possible so I won't trigger myself, which sounds, and I know how aggressive this is, but I feel crazy, you know? this is how I feel. I feel like I'm like, this, this cannot be, this cannot be normal. Logically, rationally, I, I will go like, well, of course you're not crazy. You have misophonia. And I feel, I feel crazy. Just as even more crazy than I, I don't know if that's something you experienced, but especially growing up when we didn't have this vocabulary, we didn't know what was going on, and I just felt so odd. I don't know if that was your case, but I just felt so out of place all the time. And then I would be crazy. But then, yeah, that's...
Adeel [53:29]: Well, you feel like, I mean, this is probably, you know, when you're super triggered, it feels like a, you know, panic attack.
Felipe [53:34]: Exactly.
Adeel [53:35]: It was that vertigo situation. So you completely seize up. There's all kinds of physiological effects. And yeah, I mean, everything, you know, your impression of everybody is totally different. Like, and then you come snap out of it and you're like, oh, everyone's fine.
Felipe [53:52]: you know it's just like it's it's when you're going through a yeah when you're going through a massive trigger like it's like everyone is the whole world's against you and so and then this is something i've been thinking of a lot lately and i i really don't know how to do it but especially you know being communications being working with media um We have to educate people more about misophonia, and I don't even mean so that people won't trigger those with misophonia, but for those with misophonia to understand what they have, because when I look back, and then again, I know I'm repeating myself, but having misophonia and being a highly sensitive person, I didn't have the proper tools to deal with what I was feeling. And I really put myself in a position to just be so vulnerable to anxiety and so vulnerable to depression and so vulnerable to having panic attacks and to all those things because I didn't know how to relate to my surroundings. I'm still learning actually. So I feel like if I could go back which is such a lame thing to say, but if I could go back and relive some of those moments, knowing what I know now, of course I would just behave differently, not in just how, again, like how I would talk to my parents, but how I would talk to myself, you know, just making sure I knew there was nothing wrong with me. There were things going on with me, but they weren't wrong. You know, they were not mistakes. They were not insanity, right? They were just the way my brain is wired. And yes, it is different. And I do... I am capable of living well with it, you know?
Adeel [55:56]: Yeah, many of us are. It's not always easy, but yeah, most of us can make it through. It's just we think about this many times a day.
Felipe [56:07]: Yeah, yeah.
Adeel [56:10]: So, yeah, I guess maybe to wind down, it sounds like you've thought about what you wanted to say today. I was wondering if there's anything else you wanted to tell the audience.
Felipe [56:25]: I feel like I covered everything.
Adeel [56:27]: We did cover a lot.
Felipe [56:28]: Yeah. So that's totally fine. Yeah, I didn't really plan what I was going to say. I wanted it to be organic. But I, yeah, I am an overthinker. And I was, you know, the past few days, I was like, okay.
Adeel [56:43]: I'm sure you thought about it a little bit.
Felipe [56:45]: Yeah.
Adeel [56:47]: I doubt you have a script, but I'm sure it came up in your mind. So I wanted to let you, you know, let everything out that you, you know.
Felipe [56:55]: Yeah, I promised myself I wouldn't write anything down. And I didn't. but yeah i did think uh like the the story about like what i lived in school and yeah all of those things but yeah i believe i yeah i have exhausted all my misophonia related uh topics yeah i know it's very good this is really interesting and i'm glad we were able to kind of yeah dig into some of uh
Adeel [57:25]: You know how it relates or doesn't relate to HSP. Yes, you always get to hear people talk about how it relates personally with their family members and friends. It's because it's such an important thing that we all bottle up. I'm sure most of the listeners have bottled that up growing up.
Felipe [57:43]: Absolutely. Yeah. And I just want to encourage people to take the highly sensitive person test. It's really, I don't remember the name of the website, but if you Google highly sensitive person, that would be the first one that comes up. It's the test made by Elaine Aaron. She's amazing. There are so many things with her, like from podcasts to, I don't think she has a podcast, but she's been a guest. on several different podcasts and there are there's a lot of hers on youtube as well and i encourage everyone to go and um research more about it even if you don't think you're a highly sensitive person again 20 of the population is highly sensitive so you do know a few people who are highly sensitive and you should be sensitive to highly sensitive people exactly thank you
Adeel [58:37]: No, that's pretty good. And I'll try to get the link and stick in the show notes before this goes live. Perfect. That's a great, yeah, it's a great point. Well, Andre, I want to thank you. This has been a great conversation, lively conversation. Very good stuff here. Yeah, thanks again. And yeah, good luck with everything. And I hope there's more awareness in Brazil soon.
Felipe [59:01]: Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. And thank you so much for what you've been doing. I know this is what I told you the first time I reached out to you. I know it's not easy to edit podcasts when you have misophonia. So I do sympathize a lot with you. And I am very thankful for your work.
Adeel [59:21]: Thank you, Andre. This was a fantastic conversation. I hope to hear from more folks in South America. I'd love to have you on the show. If you're enjoying the podcast, please consider hitting the five stars on Apple Podcasts. Otherwise, hit me up on Instagram or Facebook. Music, as always, is by Moby. And until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.
Unknown Speaker [59:50]: Thank you.