Gabriel: Earplugs & Community for Trigger Relief

Adeel [0:00]: Yeah, really either one, Gabe or Gabriel is fine.

17971651 [0:02]: Okay, cool. Well, awesome. let's get into this. I'll say, Gabriel, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here.

Adeel [0:11]: Thanks for having me.

17971651 [0:12]: Cool, yeah, do you wanna tell us a little bit about kind of where you're located, a bit about what you do?

Adeel [0:19]: Yeah, I live in Western Montana, a city of about 75,000 people. I'm 45 years old and I work in marketing. actually started a marketing company when I was pretty young and now my wife runs it and I've kind of taken a step back recently from it. I found it really interesting on your podcast. how many people seem to have Misophonia and have some sort of technical or engineering background. I'm more kind of on the technical and coding side myself. I'm not quite a developer and an engineer, but I do seem to fit that profile, which I just find to be so strange. I should also say I recently discovered your podcast and I've been binging it for the last, I don't know, month or so. And I wanted to start with the first episode and work my way forward. And so I'm still on 2020. People are still talking about the COVID lockdown and it's been really interesting. My background with Misophonia started, I don't know exactly when, I think I was five or six years old. And like so many of your guests,

17971651 [1:15]: Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel [1:40]: have said, you they remember their father triggering them. And that was true for me as well. My dad is a retired child psychologist. so it's been kind of an interesting, I don't know, interesting upbringing, because I come from a family that is very loving and very supportive, and, you know, never never made fun of me for this issue and really wanted to help. especially back then in the 80s, know, not much was known about this. And my experience was that nothing was known about this. So my dad tried to help me in a number of ways, none of which worked. One way that he tried to help was through kind of his version of exposure therapy.

17971651 [2:39]: Yeah.

Adeel [2:40]: And I remember that he, you know, so I'd be at the dinner table and just a small four person dinner table kind of sandwiched between my parents and being triggered every single night and really, really suffering. And they wanted to help me. And so my dad recorded himself eating some really crunchy food. Back then it was, he was always eating grape nuts for cereal for breakfast.

17971651 [3:08]: Yeah. Right.

Adeel [3:11]: you know, kind of the worst possible thing somebody could eat around me. So he recorded himself eating that on a cassette tape and he called it crunch. And he wasn't trying to make fun of me or make light of the situation, but it was a ridiculous, funny thing to do. Right. We all thought it was kind of, kind of funny. And I remember he sat me down at the table and, and, played that over the stereo. And it, I don't remember it being particularly bothersome.

17971651 [3:26]: Yeah.

Adeel [3:40]: For me, a recording is much different than actually experiencing something live. I remember just the sheer ridiculousness of it was sort of funny and it was bothering me a little bit maybe. But my dad, meanwhile, I learned later as an adult that this was one of his biggest parenting regrets. That he saw that as a huge parenting failure and really, really regrets it.

17971651 [3:44]: Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Adeel [4:10]: I kind of tried to tell him dad, know, really was not that significant of a deal for me at the time, but something that he that he really held with him. Yeah. Yeah.

17971651 [4:21]: The regret of doing the exposure therapy or not having not being able to figure out the misophonia or or that it came up just kind of curious what yeah yeah yeah

Adeel [4:30]: the exposure therapy, trying to do that. I'm 45 years old now. I've lived with this for so long and I have very few coping mechanisms. had none back then. It was torture. I think that in retrospect, those experiences of just sitting at the dinner table night after night after night and just not having any outlets or relief from it was probably in some way traumatizing to me that has affected how I deal with things today. But one of the things that I experienced that I haven't heard many of your guests so far talk about, and again, I'm only up to the 2020 season. But I don't hear them talk a whole lot about shame. So many of your guests have found ways to be upfront and open about misophonia and tell people that they have this issue and people seem to be responsive to that and helpful. I am horribly, horribly ashamed of my misophonia. I don't want anyone to know about it. I want it to go away. want to suppress it. I don't want to tell anybody. I don't want to talk to anybody. One of the catalysts for me coming on your podcast here is to maybe make a dent in that issue and maybe take a step towards owning it and being a little more open. But I think back about... my wife and I'll talk more about her, but she and my therapist have both recommended that this is not something you need to be ashamed of. You don't need to hide it. It's part of who you are. There's not something wrong with you. But I just can't overcome that. I do think there's something wrong with me. I'm not here to judge anyone else with misophonia, only myself, but, but geez, I think there's something very, very wrong with me. And, and I hate it. And I I desperately want it to go away. It's something that, as you know, your listeners know, it's something that is just awful to live with and debilitating. growing up, I just assumed that this would be something I'd grow out of. Like I'm a kid and I don't see any other adults, I don't see any adults dealing with anything like this or being strange. This is going to go away. And of course it didn't.

17971651 [7:07]: Yeah.

Adeel [7:17]: I listened to lot of your guests talk about how they really struggled at college and in lectures and classrooms, or even just in school in general. My triggers are primarily eating and chewing sounds. And the people that bother me are the ones that I know the best. So a stranger, or even somebody that I know casually, they're really not gonna be able to trigger me. can do all of the same things that my loved ones will do and it doesn't bother me at all.

17971651 [7:51]: Never or sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Adeel [7:58]: I struggle or I hesitate to say never, but I can't think of a time.

17971651 [8:00]: Yeah, I think about that too, because sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't, and I feel like the context has to do with it. If I feel trapped, then it does. But if it's I don't know, if it's passing and I happen to be in a good mood, low stress, I can deal with it. So yeah, it's an interesting thing that I like to ask people about.

Adeel [8:19]: Yeah, you know, I recognize things that are obnoxious, like, geez, that stranger is, you know, doing something with their mouth that they really shouldn't do maybe, or that I certainly think that they shouldn't do. But it doesn't make me go nuts. You know, a trigger for me, you know, a simple split second that somebody that's emotionally close to me, my parents, my wife, my kids.

17971651 [8:24]: Right. Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Adeel [8:48]: when they bite into that chip, it feels like my blood thickens, my muscles constrict. I feel almost like a spasm in my lower back. And it's awful and I don't feel like I'm...

17971651 [8:58]: Mm-hmm.

Adeel [9:06]: You like I've come a long way since I'm a kid. can hide things a little bit better. But, you know, for me, I think it was maybe seven or eight years ago that my therapist said, you know, I'm seeing somebody else that has these same sort of triggers as you. And did you know about misophonia? And it's like my jaw.

17971651 [9:09]: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel [9:35]: dropped on the floor because I have gone through my life certain that I'm the only one in the world that has this super strange issue and all alone. felt like I'd been an alien on planet Earth, all by myself. And then suddenly with a snap of a finger, I find out that there are other people in this world, other aliens, I guess, that

17971651 [9:56]: Mm-hmm. Yep

Adeel [10:05]: that have these same issues and I can't even describe what that felt like. I really was convinced it's me and nobody else. When I learned that, I of course went to the web and started searching and I found the Misophonius subreddit. And my first thought was, if I'm not the only one, then there's probably some solutions out there. And the...

17971651 [10:14]: Yeah. Right, right, right.

Adeel [10:33]: the subreddit I eventually had to get off of it because there's a lot of people complaining and talking about a trigger that really set them off and they're trying to vent. I totally get that. But I really wanted to find a solution. so I've seen things about earplugs. And in fact, one of your

17971651 [10:48]: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Adeel [11:02]: episodes, somebody recommended a specific type of earphone or earplug called Earpiece. Is that what it's called?

17971651 [11:12]: OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Those pipes is I think Sam. Yeah, she writes mentioned earpiece and I think I have some somewhere here. Yeah, there's earpiece. There's loops, other ones. And I feel like they're all kind of similar. I mean, there's not much you can do with a piece of plastic. You put it to your two ears on a variation, not a whole bunch of variation. But but some of more interesting, I think earpiece works this way where there's a couple different levels of.

Adeel [11:24]: Yeah. Yeah.

17971651 [11:40]: blockage just depending on how I don't know how you press it, you know, change the shape of it or something. So, but again, I mean, it masks the sound and sometimes I've noticed, sorry, this is me talking, but sometimes I've noticed that it will, depending on the trigger, it will mask other sounds, but then you kind of latch on to the trigger more because you're almost like listening for it if you know it's going to be there. So,

Adeel [11:48]: Yeah. listening for it.

17971651 [12:08]: I know, I find it kind of inconsistent in that way and so I just don't use them. I mean, if I'm gonna put something in my ear, I'd rather put like these AirPod Pros and put some music on top.

Adeel [12:20]: Yeah, you know, I ordered after that episode, I got on Amazon and I ordered them just because I thought it can't hurt. might as well try it. They arrived the other day and I haven't had really a chance to try them out at all. I don't want to wear earplugs. I don't want to wear anything. I want to be normal in every sense of the word. The idea of somebody noticing those family members that know I have misophonia, anybody I don't want.

17971651 [12:29]: year. Right, yeah.

Adeel [12:49]: I don't want them to know about it. I also, you know, I'm skeptical that just reducing the noise at all would help anyway, but gosh, at this point I'm willing to try anything. I heard about some of the research grants that are being studied, some of work that Dr. Marsha Johnson, that what, at Oregon?

17971651 [12:56]: Yeah. Yeah, she's an audiologist. She's not actually doing research herself, but yeah.

Adeel [13:17]: Right, right, but trying to treat it, I've looked into these and it's so frustrating that it doesn't seem like there's, that there've been any advancements. Yeah, I think about somebody that has a pacemaker, right? If their heart rhythm is abnormal, it gives them a little shock and things are back to normal. I need that for my brain. I need something. I'm so frustrated that...

17971651 [13:36]: Mm-hmm. Right. That's an interesting analogy. Yeah. Yeah. We're the research is still at a, the research is very much still at a kind of characterize this level. Like what is this? What are the mechanisms? You know, there are some cognitive methods to kind of, you know, help refocus yourself. There are some trauma informed therapies as well. If that happens to be one of the reasons why it developed. But yeah, there is, there isn't like a pacemaker that can kind of like,

Adeel [13:55]: Yeah. Right.

17971651 [14:16]: Intercept the signal before it it causes havoc before it triggers the fight or flight

Adeel [14:20]: Right. Right, I suppose that if my, if I had something in my brain that was giving me a shock anytime I had a weird thought, I'd be being shocked constantly. It's probably not a good idea.

17971651 [14:31]: Right. yeah. Right. Yeah. No, but it's something. Yeah. You're kind of like past to kind of like it's interesting that you just found out about it recently, but your path to kind of like, well, your your path after you found out what it was is very similar to a lot of people. You'll you'll definitely find that as you're as you're listening to the podcast episodes and shame will come. Shame does come up. So keep listening. The shame and guilt. We mentioned that a lot, like the guilt of like everything that

Adeel [14:56]: It does.

17971651 [15:01]: you know, our glares or outbursts cause people, you know, just compounds the issue. You know, it just kind of like gets, I feel like it gets in the way of many of us kind of like dealing with it or even looking for an answer. Like you said, a lot of us feel like we're, we're freaks and there's, mean, it's, it's our own thing. And so a lot of us don't even Google for something like this until much later, you know, in life. So.

Adeel [15:28]: Yeah, yeah, it, don't know why I didn't think to, to, research it, you know, at all on Google, before my therapist brought it up. I don't know. It's sort of like, just sort of, it's always been part of me and it just didn't occur to me to go, you know, I just assumed I'm the only one I've never ever heard of anybody that has this. What's the point of going and looking at Google? Maybe it seems unreasonable in retrospect, but, yeah,

17971651 [15:45]: Hmm. Right. Right.

Adeel [15:59]: My, uh, my, so, you know, like, like so many of your other guests, um, it's caused problems throughout my life. Um, especially being unwilling to tell people about it. Uh, I remember a girlfriend in college, um, I picked her up from the airport and, know, had an hour or two drive back to, back to school and she was chewing gum. uh, I don't think I've come much further now than I was back then. I couldn't say I, I.

17971651 [16:16]: my...

Adeel [16:28]: just held it in and she could tell that I was boiling and you know, what's the matter? Nothing. What's going on? you sure everything's okay? It's fine. You know, and meanwhile, I'm gripping the steering wheel. I'm boiling, right? And it's definitely caused problems. My wife is the first, really an only person other than my therapist that I have told about it and talked about it with.

17971651 [16:30]: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. I'm number three.

Adeel [16:58]: you, you really are, you really are number, number three. and she's, I told her about it before we got married while we were still dating. I can't imagine someone being more supportive and more compassionate, compassionate than she is. I can confidently say if the situation was reversed, I couldn't, I wouldn't be as supportive with this weird thing as she is for me. what I don't like to talk about it with her.

17971651 [17:09]: Mm.

Adeel [17:28]: She always wants to try to normalize it and have it be something that's just part of who you are, but let's own it. Let's not hide it. I'm not there. I don't know if I'll ever be there. But she's amazing and I'm really lucky. I glare and I can't control it. And I was just blown away listening to your podcast that... you you've coined this term or least you introduced it to me, the misophonia glare. Like how crazy is that? That even down to my, you know, the look on my face is other people are doing it. But giving her that glare for an instant is really upsetting for her. And I understand why. And that's really hard to reconcile. I feel terrible about it. You my kids didn't always trickle.

17971651 [18:12]: Mm-hmm.

Adeel [18:24]: excuse me, trigger me. And now they do and it's really 8, 10 and 12.

17971651 [18:25]: Yep. Around what age are they? Just out of curiosity. Yeah, okay, yeah. That's a common, it's not unheard of that when they're tiny and cute. It's fine. And then as they get older. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 13 and almost five, yeah.

Adeel [18:40]: Now you have kids yourself? You don't talk? Okay, okay. Yeah, giving them that glare is really confusing to them and upsetting and my wife would really like to draw the line there. but that still happens. Yeah, I'm, so my, I told you my dad is a retired child psychologist. He came to me a few years ago before he retired and he said,

17971651 [19:13]: Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel [19:20]: He said, hey, you I'm advising these graduate students and one of them is working with a kid who has sound sensitivity. I don't know if he called it misophonia at the time, but it was clear. And he said, you know, this is something that you used to struggle with. And I wanted to see if you had any, any thoughts or recommendations that I could share with this, you know, this, graduate student in psychology. And, and I lost it. I

17971651 [19:30]: Mm-hmm.

Adeel [19:49]: I knew he was coming to talk to me about this. He gave me a heads up. I started crying and I said, dad, this never went away. I struggle with this all day, every day. he was really compassionate and understanding. And he said he didn't know that I still struggle with it and that I must do a really effective job of hiding it.

17971651 [19:52]: yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adeel [20:21]: And he kind of tried to, I could tell, you know, in the times that I saw him after that, that he'd kind of try to give me a little space when he was eating or maybe, maybe not eat immediately, but people forget. you know, especially an older parent, you know, he, he forgot long ago. I did burst out at one point, I said, why don't we talk when you're done eating?

17971651 [20:34]: Mm-hmm. Right.

Adeel [20:49]: When you know when he was over once and he I could see on his face. He kind of backed away and said I'm sorry I forgot But it's it's I try to control I again I don't want him to know I don't want anybody to know I was at a hotel with my with my parents are visiting them in their hotel room on a trip recently and They they were having a gonna have a lunch

17971651 [20:51]: Yeah.

Adeel [21:16]: And so like so many other people, I got an excuse, okay, well, I'm actually going to go for a walk. I'll be back in a little bit. And my mom said, okay, no problem. I'll send you a text when we're done eating. And it hit me like a ton of bricks. She saw right through me. She knew exactly why I was leaving and why I was leaving and what was going on. it was like I'd had the wind knocked out of me for a split second. in fact,

17971651 [21:23]: Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Adeel [21:46]: Um, I was so distraught that I had been quote unquote caught, um, that I, I went for a walk, a long walk and I searched Apple podcasts for Misophonia and listened to your first podcast. Uh, and, and was just kind of shaking my head and disbelief that people were talking about such similar, um, I don't know, kind of similar lives to mine.

17971651 [21:52]: Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's that that to give me the shivers just because you know one of my I don't know feel like defy or strongest memories of you know I was not even as a child as I was in college was like just a look at my parents face after I kind of like backed away in a similar situation like that I'm sure it was like a meal and that just has stuck with me forever and this one of the reason why I want to share more more stories so it's could feel like it's kind of kind of come full circle with you with your story here so Very kind of moving to hear that.

Adeel [22:49]: Yeah, you know, a big thing with me and my shame is that I don't want the world to accommodate me, right? My family, my wife and to some degree my kids are already walking on eggshells all the time. That's the eggshells term is something that my wife has talked about.

17971651 [22:57]: Yeah.

Adeel [23:14]: If I were to start sharing this with the world, first of all, it's such an odd, unusual thing. Certainly not something that people encounter very frequently in a city of 75,000-ish people here. I don't want to be that super weird guy, what's wrong with them, I've never heard of this, never seen anybody else deal with this. I don't want people to accommodate me in that way. And even if they did, as soon as I've kind of outed myself and said, Hey, this is something that really bothers me. Could you not chew gum around me or, or do anything with your mouth? Could you just hold your breath when you're around me? As soon as they forget, which is probably going to happen in, you know, in seven minutes, then it's

17971651 [23:57]: Yeah, yeah.

Adeel [24:07]: you know, then that rage would come out. I'm sure. told you and you're still doing it. Like, how is this even possible? Right? Or, you know, it's been a week and now I see you again and do I really have to like out myself again? I think it would just make me so angry. Yeah, it's I just want to go away. I just want it to go away. I can't believe that that so many of us are living with this. It's crazy.

17971651 [24:10]: Yeah. Right, right, it's exhausting. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes think about what it would be like not to have it. And it's the amount we'd have our, you know, our brain back in our, how much more productive or just kind of like our nervous system. mean, I think like to your point about that muscle spasm, I think there are physical manifestations, whether it's immediate or long-term to kind of glaring at people so much all day. I think you would, yeah. have difference. It'd make a huge difference long, you know, far, far beyond just the anxiety and the rage. Yeah, I I don't blame you, man. We should have a little society. Somebody emailed me after listening to the podcast once and saying, Hey, should we just, can I help buy a bunch of real estate and we'll build houses and so.

Adeel [25:26]: You know, speaking of meeting or being around other people with Misophonia, this is the closest here you and I talking about it that I've ever come. And I learned about through your podcast, I've learned about this annual convention and...

17971651 [25:30]: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel [25:44]: have mixed feelings about it. I'm really, really interested, really interested. I'm worried that it would be me and three other people, but it sounds like it's much bigger than that.

17971651 [25:57]: Yeah, I could tell you about it just really briefly. I'm not affiliated with it, but there's one coming up. The next one is coming up in October, October 23rd, and it's going to be in Dallas. And yeah, it's usually like a couple hundred people show up from mostly around the country. It's put on by Marsha Johnson and her Miss Funnier convention. Yeah, so it's interesting. They do a lot of work for breakfast, for example, and even lunch, to only get food.

Adeel [26:00]: Yeah. I saw that.

17971651 [26:26]: that is soft and not, you know, crunchy. So there's nothing crunchy. All the pens are non-clicking pens. There's like a lot of space in the hotel to kind of like move around if, you know, if you're getting triggered. always pick, this is kind of interesting, they always pick the embassy suite hotels because there's like two doors. There's the front door and then there's another door to the bedroom. So because they're all suites, so like you have extra protection from the, you know, from the rest of the hotel, so it's extra quiet. And yeah, like, I mean, to be honest, I've told them this, like, the talks are, the talks are, some of them are really good, some of them are like, could definitely do without, and I usually do without most of the talks because it's those conversations with people like you or other people that are kind of the most beneficial. Like, you meet somebody for the first time and you feel like you have walked in their shoes for their entire lives.

Adeel [26:55]: Mm-hmm.

17971651 [27:24]: which is a surreal experience. And for the first time, you're kind of like looking out, watching your eating sounds and things like that. So it's kind of an interesting dynamic there as well. So, you know, they really try to make, things quiet. There's always something, there's always like an HVAC issue at some point or a door that is not, you know, slams too hard sometimes, but. I don't know, but overall, I mean, I have a good time. And I think they're trying to do more of the community, you know, the more social events now, which I think are the most valuable parts of that particular event. I've gone to a few. I've gone to, and then when it was during COVID, I was doing it online, but I went, I just went last year. Yeah, last year to, oh gosh, I don't even remember where it was now.

Adeel [28:08]: So do you go every year?

17971651 [28:21]: But, Atlanta, yeah, I went there and Atlanta's gonna be Dallas. Yeah, I'll probably go, yeah, this year as well, if I can afford it. not that much, yeah, they're constantly trying to improve it. I think if they focus more on the social stuff to kind of like hang out with other people, do practical workshops to look for what's helping you. And it could be what helps you, might not be for somebody else. So I think. I think there's gonna be a bunch more workshops to kind of help that, help people find new solutions that they may have not have thought of. Yeah, it's fun to, and you meet friends that you'll be in touch with outside of it. And you just have people on your speed dial that you can kind of like say, you'll get this. And then you get into your story.

Adeel [29:12]: You know, I'm really, really intrigued and I told my wife about it and she immediately said, she said, we should go. and I think I have a couple of hesitations. One is, I'm, you know, outing myself. but the, probably the bigger one is, I have heard on your podcast episodes that, that some of the most valuable experiences at that happened in the hallway is just a

17971651 [29:14]: Yeah. Yeah, a lot of couples go and families.

Adeel [29:41]: social events and things like that. And I am, I'm not an extrovert. My wife is, she'd jump in there and love to talk to everybody. I'm pretty introverted. you know, at work, I have had opportunities to do networking events, which is nothing to do with misophonia, but just for me, but, just kind of not my jam, walking up to people, introducing myself, and then trying to find things to talk about. I am more the kind of person that would want to.

17971651 [29:42]: Yeah. yeah. Right.

Adeel [30:10]: stand at the back of a group of people that are already doing that. you know what I mean?

17971651 [30:15]: Well, to be honest, most people at this convention are that they were, know, this misophonia either made them introverted and awkward or they just naturally were. I mean, not everybody is, but it's very common that you'll go there, a couple will go there, the spouse is super extroverted and then the misophonia is not. And so I think, you guys actually fit right in.

Adeel [30:40]: That's good to hear. wonder if there's some kind of a commonality there with misophonia and not being extroverted, being introverted. Although I've heard a number of your guests seem to be the opposite.

17971651 [30:46]: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, highly functional Mesa phones in some way. Yeah, it doesn't. I don't think this one precludes anybody from from being extroverted. But I think you'll hear even those people, they reach a level of exhaustion like they can't. They're not going to do it 24 7. If they get triggered, there is a there's a toll. So.

Adeel [31:19]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've heard you talk about that before about just how exhausting it is to be triggered and recover from that. And I'd never really thought about, about that sort of toll. and I don't know if I can, I'm unsure if, if that's, if that's holds true for me. yeah, I'm not sure. That's interesting. It could be, it could be true. And I just don't recognize it as exhaustion, but, I certainly have noticed that

17971651 [31:39]: Mm-hmm.

Adeel [31:49]: if I am stressed or if I am tired that I have much less capacity to handle a trigger. I listen very carefully to your guests when they talk about their coping mechanisms because I want some. I want a coping mechanism. for me, gosh, it's avoidance or excuses. Okay, well, I'm going to go and do the dishes now, but we just started dinner. Well,

17971651 [31:55]: absolutely. Yeah.

Adeel [32:18]: there's dishes in the sink, you know, and I'm just gonna be right over there. I'll still see you. It's all, yeah, exactly. It's all, they're all excuses. My wife sees right through them. She allows it. Speaking of eating quickly, I wonder if anybody else can relate to this, at that young age, when I was a little kid sitting at the dinner table every night, I learned to just...

17971651 [32:19]: Right. Or I'll make strengths. Yeah.

Adeel [32:45]: inhale my food, wolf it down as fast as possible and be excused the second my parents would allow it. I have not, I mean, I can slow down a little bit now, but boy, that's part of who I am. I eat very, very quickly. Extreme example, you my dog, I feed him and he eats so fast that he doesn't remember that he ate, right? And he's like, when's dinner? I'm not quite that bad, but.

17971651 [32:47]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Adeel [33:15]: Gosh, I want to get out of there. And that was an early coping mechanism that didn't help much.

17971651 [33:21]: Do you remember like what were your kind of, you said you were on five or six, what was kind of going on there? Was it just suddenly you just noticed it at the dinner table or were you, do you have other stresses at home?

Adeel [33:35]: I don't remember a time before misophonia. And our family has not had any classic traumatic events that I can remember. My grandfather and my mother both had and have a fair amount of anxiety. And that's certainly something that I suffer from as well.

17971651 [33:48]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adeel [34:05]: I don't, I certainly don't remember the first time I was triggered. You know, when my dad was, was asking me if I had any advice, you know, he didn't realize that I had had misophonia. He said that he remembers that, you know, I'd be triggered and I'd be really upset. And I mean, this little kid and that they try to comfort me. And, and they said, he said that they, that they couldn't even hold me because the

17971651 [34:08]: Mm-hmm.

Adeel [34:33]: breathing noises would bother me. And I didn't know that. certainly didn't remember that. But as a parent now, that's heartbreaking to think that that might happen to anybody. it's heartbreaking to think that that was me. And thinking about my own kid, my own kids, my three boys, my therapist and my wife have said,

17971651 [34:36]: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adeel [35:03]: you when we talk about shame, if you had, you know, diabetes or birthmark or, you know, would you, would you be ashamed to, to talk about that or to let people know? And I said, no, have allergies and, you know, plenty of other issues and I'm not ashamed to talk about that. But holy cow, misophonia, I don't want anybody to know about it.

17971651 [35:25]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Adeel [35:31]: I don't want anybody to see me suffering from it. I don't want anybody to see through my excuses. My therapist has said, you know, if you're, what if your kids start to have misophonia, are you going to want them to kind of keep that to themselves? Of course not. I want them to be supported. I want to talk to them about it. I think it'd be easier for me to talk to them about it if I found out that they had it, but geez, I do not want them to have to deal with that, with this.

17971651 [35:57]: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I wonder what that is, whether it is just because it is so weird or if going back to, maybe not everybody's childhood, but going back to some level of fear or not wanting to disappoint or something like that, that in many, because I hear that of feeling that a lot of people have had when they were kids is like there were some situations where, they're probably the child. unformed, an unfully formed brain was felt under threat and had to kind of like almost toughen up. I've had people who comments that they had really had to fend for themselves in some situations because things were so chaotic at home. So I don't know if that kind of plays into it and resonates with a lot of people. Maybe not everybody, but.

Adeel [36:54]: Yeah, I mean, it's possible that I'm blocking something out, but I...

17971651 [37:00]: Or maybe something was misinterpreted or something. Yeah, I don't

Adeel [37:03]: I just, don't think so, but my wife has said, I don't know what trauma you experienced as a kid that's made you so ashamed of this. And she uses that term trauma. And I was sort of thinking of, well, first I felt defensive. Like, you know, my parents are so awful that they did something to traumatize me that made me super ashamed of my misophonia. Like, no, that didn't happen. But

17971651 [37:13]: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. No, it doesn't seem like it, right?

Adeel [37:32]: I also was kind of reserving that term trauma for something more, I don't know, obvious, like a soldier in battle, you know, right. And on one of your episodes, I say more recent episode, but this is from 2020, because as I'm going through them, there was two people on a man and a woman that work at a

17971651 [37:39]: Yeah. Yep, PTSD. Sure.

Adeel [38:02]: addiction recovery center. And I was really relating to what the man was saying. He was talking about how he really hadn't discussed this with anybody before your podcast. And he was talking about sitting at the dinner table as a kid. And I started to think like, Jesus, that my trauma every single night, being at that dinner table, you know, being unable to leave.

17971651 [38:27]: Hmm.

Adeel [38:30]: I know that at some point my parents would probably say, stop. Like stop, stop. You're being so disruptive here at the dinner table. Just stop it. Okay, just go, you're done. You can leave. I don't think many of my experiences were like that. I don't remember them, but I'm sure that that happened. And maybe that just the years and years of sitting at that dinner table.

17971651 [38:37]: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adeel [39:00]: did affect me in some kind of way. You know, back to the idea of maturing and this no longer being an issue, right? You're a kid, you got some weird issue, you'll grow out of it. I always thought that. My dad has a cousin, don't know if that makes her my second cousin or great cousin or I don't know, but I saw her and...

17971651 [39:04]: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel [39:27]: you know, just a really nice person. And she, she said, you know, I'm so funny. I remember I visited you guys when you were little kids. And one of the things I remember is that you just could not be around people that were, were eating. It was so funny, you know, just so funny to be able to tell you that story now. Um, and I didn't know what to say. Uh, I wasn't going to tell her like, yeah, that's, I haven't changed. Right. That's me today. I never outgrew that. It's a thing.

17971651 [39:41]: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's me today. Yeah, yeah. Wow.

Adeel [39:57]: I just kind of nodded my head and smiled and felt worse.

17971651 [40:04]: Wow. So obviously, yeah, I mean, a lot of people were noticing from a young age for you.

Adeel [40:13]: Yeah, for sure, because as a kid you don't have those coping mechanisms and not good at hiding things and internalizing it. I can do those things better now. It doesn't feel any better, but I can hide it better.

17971651 [40:19]: No. Yeah. Was your dad giving you any other kind of coping mechanisms for other than the exposure? Did he try other things for misophonia or just kind of, I don't know, other other other getting through life, getting through childhood kind of situations? Yeah.

Adeel [40:50]: I don't remember. We must have talked about it or he must have tried to talk to me about it. I remember as a kid for a short period of time, I did see a therapist. I think it was a number of things, but what I remember very, very vaguely was that I super embarrassed to be going to a therapist after school. What if my friends find out?

17971651 [41:02]: Okay. For this or something else? Yeah.

Adeel [41:20]: and angry about that. But I do remember maybe overhearing the therapist talk to my parents and said, you know, I sort of been in the eighties or early nineties that she looked in some kind of database, national database at the time. And so sort of been pre internet. I don't know what she was consulting, but that there was probably right. That there was

17971651 [41:42]: your catalog or something.

Adeel [41:48]: something that might have been similar. remember she said that there was a girl in some city I'd never heard of that had some noise sensitivities or something like that. And it stuck with me. But that was the only thing that I'd ever heard of that might be related. as far as I was concerned, it didn't count, it wasn't.

17971651 [41:59]: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Adeel [42:15]: Yeah, that therapy, I don't remember anything else. And parents desperately wanted to help me, just as any good parent would. And there's nothing I can do.

17971651 [42:22]: Yeah. Did your friends notice at school anything? Were you glaring at them? No, okay.

Adeel [42:29]: No, no, because I, it didn't bother me. This was my parents, my brother sucked his thumb well into, what was it, second grade. there was a year when we shared a bedroom and I'd be dragging my blankets out into the hallway and.

17971651 [42:34]: Yeah. 30s? okay. Yeah.

Adeel [42:54]: you and course I could still hear it and I'm trying to cover my ears and I wake up and my ears are sore. but just sort of friends and acquaintances, they, they don't, can do all of the same things and it really, really won't bother me. luckily. that makes me think that, that because I've heard a lot of your other guests, I think I'd probably have a mild case of misophonia compared to how bad it can be.

17971651 [43:16]: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Adeel [43:24]: And I guess in some way I'm grateful for that.

17971651 [43:27]: Yeah, I I don't think the number of people probably, I mean, I'm not speaking out of any kind of research, but yeah, I wouldn't, for me, the severity is the feeling as opposed to how many people trigger you kind of thing. Because I think it is, for a lot of us, it is very much context based who it is. And almost, I feel like it's kind of even worse that way. because it's this other dimension on top of it. If it was just everybody else being too loud kind of thing, that's, I don't want to say not as big of an issue, but that could be something else, could be hyperacusis or something like that. But if it's the fight or flight with certain sounds, with certain people, that is definitely, that's the textbook. Well, again, I don't want to say what a textbook definition is, but that's misophonia and. Yeah, I don't think it's any less than other people. it's not, it's not, right. There's a push to get it in there. There's a push to get it into the more, there's a more international system as well, because I think the DSM's just gonna, it might continue to disappoint, but yeah, it is not in the DSM yet.

Adeel [44:22]: It's still. Misophonia is still not in the DSM, I assume. Too bad. You know, I think that my dad as a child psychologist could have, maybe if it wasn't the DSM, there would have been more understanding back then. It would have been nice to know that I wasn't the only one, that this is actually a thing that people know about and maybe I could have had some more effective help.

17971651 [44:51]: So. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, well what do you do these days? mean, you got the AirPods, you got the avoidance, is that pretty much?

Adeel [45:17]: So I don't want people to see me with earplugs or AirPods. So no, in my ears. It's avoidance. It's trying to get through it, right? Just stiffening up and trying to not show it on my face as best I can and then excuses. I'm going go for a walk, you know, just because I need to get some exercise here and nothing is wrong.

17971651 [45:21]: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Adeel [45:46]: You know what, I'm going to tackle those dishes and do some laundry and you know, it's 7pm but the garage needs to be painted and this seems like perfect time to do it, Sillyness that people see through if they know me. You you asked about if friends at school noticed. No, but I do. I have had some friends that I think once I said to a friend, you know, you're

17971651 [45:47]: Yeah, right, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Adeel [46:15]: Nose is whistling every time you take a breath. And I didn't say you're driving me crazy. I wanted to just say like, hey, that's pretty weird, don't you think? And I remember he was like, what do want me to do? Hold my breath? yeah, I wasn't gonna push that. The whistling noses though, you know, trying to watch a movie sitting next to a friend that's doing that is challenging and I'm sure other people deal with that.

17971651 [46:21]: Yeah. And he said, yeah, can you please? No, right, right. Yeah. Right, yeah, I do remember, yeah, remember sniffling, yeah, stuff that you hear in school. I think back and I remember, yeah, I think I know what that was now. Well, yeah, so one thing that comes up on the podcast, I don't know if you've heard it a lot, but it's like, you have kids, like, how do you, do you tell them about Misophon? Do you name it? Do you describe it? How does that work? Because a lot of us, and actually we've had conversations at the convention in the hallways, was, maybe it's, you know, first of all, I don't like to think about her either, even though I have a podcast. Usually, actually, whenever we get triggered, it usually catches me by surprise because I don't like to think about it. And I also don't like to shine a spotlight on it when I'm around, like, my kids or whatever, because we don't know, is it something that if you talk about a lot, it's going to be noticed more by... other people and then they'll kind of pick it up. I'm curious, have you thought about how to address it with your kids?

Adeel [47:52]: I haven't named it and I haven't really sat down and had a conversation about it, but I have told them maybe one-on-one. don't even know if I've told it to all of them, but hey, sometimes sounds bother me and that's why I shot you a dirty look or asked if I could have some space. But I'd have an easier time talking to them about it than...

17971651 [47:55]: Hmm. Hmm. Yep.

Adeel [48:22]: a stranger, obviously, I, you know, I'm listening to podcast, your podcast in my car on Apple CarPlay. And when I picked them up from school, it says Misophonia podcast. And I'm like, get that off the screen, you know, trying to trying to mute it and turn it off. because I don't want them to see that word and say, Hey, what's Misophonia? I, they should know about it. They should hear about it from me. I get that. I'm ashamed.

17971651 [48:32]: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel [48:51]: This is something that I can't control. And like I said, I feel like there's something very, very wrong with me. And that I should be able to manage this better and can't.

17971651 [49:07]: I think a lot of people are nodding along, yeah, we don't really want to have it up there. And it's not because we're, don't want to, I think we've realized that we should talk about it or it's something that we'll, you we'll have to talk about at some point and we just don't like to think about it and don't want to, and we, yeah, we carry that guilt and shame. And if we mention it, all that will come pouring out. I feel like that's kind of like in the back of our minds and it's just too much for us to handle. Cause it's like, Once you do, like you, like what happened with your dad, it just kind of, it's a flood that we've kind of like held suppressed for so long. On top of the fact that, we feel something's wrong with us. It's very much a problem inside of us, which I'm kind of having, I don't know, mixed feelings about. it, I mean, obviously there's something wrong with us, but was there... And obviously I want to get rid of it, but is there a lesson to be learned from it? it, especially for some of us where I feel like we can trace it back to experiences. Is there something we can learn about ourselves or a kind of a connection to the past that, I don't know, can, there's something about, there's something about that, that reflecting on the past that can be beneficial. Maybe at one point it was your body trying to help you somehow, trying to warn you about something or just kind of like make you connect maybe to people or cry for help or something like that, something that maybe you needed that was not being met, whatever it was. Just that idea kind of makes me feel better. And in some cases, I was just telling somebody if I can intercept my feelings, and kind of remind myself of that, that maybe it's part of, even though I don't want it, it's part of some holistic experience that kind of helps me lower the triggers a little bit. I don't know if any of that made sense. But as you listen to more of the episodes, I think you'll hear some more diverse points of view on what this is, what it could have been, how it kind of like relates to us on a deeper level.

Adeel [51:16]: Hmm. I will continue listening. It's something that has given me some relief in some way to just hear from other people. I'm still waiting for the episode where somebody says, this is the solution that will work for everyone. And follow these instructions will go away.

17971651 [51:39]: Good. Yeah. Yeah. You'll hear a few of those and it doesn't all work for everybody, but yeah.

Adeel [51:52]: Well, I'm listening, I'm listening carefully. It's a, you know, I mentioned, I don't have diabetes, that's plenty of people have diabetes. Everybody knows about diabetes, something, you know, your body's not managing your blood sugar properly. Nothing to be embarrassed about.

17971651 [52:01]: Yep.

Adeel [52:10]: I don't know why visifonia is so much different for me, but it is. I think if I had diabetes, I'd be happy to tell you and everybody else about it with no shame, but this different.

17971651 [52:21]: Well, yeah, I I totally agree. funny enough, just found out I'm type DWDs and I'm just about to jump into a meeting because I'm developing an app to help with chronic disease. So it's kind interesting. so, yeah, I'm about to pretty much talk about it for an hour. But Misophonia, I'll do it for specific people on a podcast. So it's kind of interesting.

Adeel [52:31]: jeez. Well, please don't tell anyone else that I have misophonia.

17971651 [52:50]: Okay, I will not. Yeah. Yeah, well, and you know, people listen to podcasts and they'd like to be connected to people sometimes. So if you're listening to episodes and you're like, hey, I really resonate with that person, and you will, there's dads that come on, there's all kinds of stuff. Feel free to reach out, people love to of connect and that kind of like community helps.

Adeel [52:52]: Let's just keep that one. Keep that one right here. I'm kidding, of course. Great. You know, I wanted to say that I'm certain that your podcast takes up a ton of time for you. I've seen the scheduled slots that are available and they're in the evenings and late at night. It's a really amazing thing that you're doing this for us. And it's therapeutic in some way for me.

17971651 [53:31]: Right.

Adeel [53:46]: And I'm sure for other listeners and just very, generous and good. I'm glad you got something out of it too. but it's very generous of you to create this for everybody and, and, do this with your, with your spare time. I really appreciate it. Just want to say thank you.

17971651 [53:49]: And for me too, yeah. I appreciate that. Thanks for saying that. And yeah, thanks for coming on and sharing your story and letting me be number three. And I'm sure a lot of people listening are gonna benefit from this.

Adeel [54:15]: Number three who I've told about, number one who I've spoken with another person that has misophonia. It's amazing. I want to give you a hug.

17971651 [54:23]: Yeah, one day, maybe at the convention or, or, or I'll have, maybe it'll be so triggered. I'll drive out to Montana from Minnesota. Cool. Well, thanks again for coming. All right. And cut. And that's just kind of how know in editing when to, when to go, I do have to run into.

Adeel [54:27]: Ha Thank you. Appreciate it.