#208 - Imbi
Transcript
Adeel [0:01]: Welcome to the Misophonia podcast. This is episode 208. My name's Adeel Ahmad, and I have Misophonia. This week I'm talking to Imbi. an author who came to my attention earlier this year when she published her novel, Kind of, Sort of, Maybe, But Probably Not, which features a lead character who has misophonia. Impey shares her experiences here with misophonia, discussing how it affects her daily life, relationships, and creative pursuits. She emphasizes the importance of communication with loved ones about her sensitivities and how she manages to balance her writing and parenting responsibilities. The discussion also touches on broader implications of neurodiversity and identity and some of the unique challenges that we face in the misophony community. Please check out her website, mbneem.com, which is linked in the show notes. And after the show, let me know what you think. You can reach out, of course, by email at hello at misophonypodcast.com or just hit me up on Instagram or Facebook at Misophony Podcast. And if you get a chance, please head over and leave a quick rating wherever you listen to the show. It helps drive us up in those algorithms that helps us reach more listeners. A few quick announcements. There's a few here because I've had a few interesting launches lately. First of all, go to misophoniapodcast.com slash be a guest and easily sign up for a slot to be interviewed. Please feel free to grab a time slot and we'd love to have you on the show in 2025. On the website, also at misophoniapodcast.com slash guides, there's a new series of home improvement DIY projects that you can do to quiet things at home. tips, doorknobs, doors, how to furnish your apartment or house, and some obscure things. Really useful stuff there with detailed step-by-step guides. Hopefully that will be interesting to folks. Also, if you're a researcher, go to misophoniapodcast.com slash research. As a software engineer, I've been working on a project that'll help generate in an automated fashion with the help of AI novel research proposals for future studies based on past research, based on things talked about on the podcast. So I think that'll be interesting. And of course, thanks for the incredible ongoing support of our Patreon supporters. And if you feel like contributing, read all about the various levels at patreon.com slash misophonia podcast. All right, now let's get to it. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Imbi. Imbi, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here.
Imbi [2:52]: Thanks so much for having me, Adeel.
Adeel [2:56]: Yeah. So do you want to, I guess maybe, should we maybe just start with the book? I know we'll get into it anyways, but I think that might be the kind of the beachhead to a lot of conversation. You came out with the book kind of sort of maybe, but probably not. And then there was some articles you'd written. I think that's how that, you know, you came to my attention. Do you want to talk maybe a little bit about the book and the connection to Misophonia there?
Imbi [3:23]: of course um i i did write a book it does have the very long um hard to remember title kind of sort of maybe but probably not um but um yeah the main character or one of the main characters uh has misophonia I made a decision to inflict that poor character with misophonia quite early in the writing process, mainly because as someone who had grown up with misophonia without having a label for it, uh because i was i'm ancient i'm absolutely ancient adil i i um was a teenager in the 80s um so uh i i felt very isolated really thought it was just something that was wrong with me so as there's been sort of more information in this of mainstream press about misophonia I suddenly felt this real urge to have a protagonist in a piece of fiction that was openly misophonic. Although I have said it in the 90s, so the poor main character has the same issue as me in that she really thinks she's a monster. There's something wrong with her brain. So that's the book. She's a librarian, of course, because... You would work in a library if you wanted to avoid people. Yeah, well, no, but it's also there's nobody's allowed to eat in libraries, at least back then. So you do have the right to go over and say, stop eating that apple or will you please, you know, stop chewing that gum. So, yes, I think.
Adeel [5:14]: think that's all i can say about that for now you can ask me questions though i just want to say it's great to agree to see this funny um in fiction and i don't just say that for representation i'm not one of those like you get to represent everything all the time but it's just there's so much uh just such an untapped landscape untapped emotional landscape um that has not even been a is not being taken seriously and then and then Once you get past that, whoa, there's like a whole green field of things you could talk about and explore, and they could lead to things that are non-Mesophonic, which are, you know, can speak to some real truths about living. So I'm glad that you've, you know, started to tackle that.
Imbi [5:55]: Yeah, I really, I think the most surprising thing that's come out of writing and then publishing about the misophonia is how many people have sort of stepped forward and said, oh, that's me or that's my partner or that's my child. And also all the people who have known me all my life they've gone, oh, my God, this is how you live in the world. So it's kind of an insight to why I have been perhaps, you know, there's no... clear evidence of this but perhaps in the past I may have been a little angry when someone was slurping their cereal in my vicinity and so they understand more about why I may have acted in the way that i acted and for a lot of people they never even knew that i had misophonia it was something that i really kept to myself and i could say hand on heart up until sort of my mid to late 20s there's probably only five people outside of my immediate family who knew that i had this real problem with eating noises
Adeel [7:13]: Gotcha. So you didn't really talk about it too much. I mean, it didn't even have a name, so it was hard to even know how to bring it up.
Imbi [7:20]: No, you just feel there is definitely something that's not wired correctly in my brain, and the problem is me. or the problem is the person who is eating loudly, but not that this is a universal problem. It's actually much more common than I think we even know yet.
Adeel [7:47]: And so I guess how far back did it go? Were those five people, were they your family members from the get-go? Like when did you start to experience it?
Imbi [7:55]: Oh, yeah. I think my parents knew very early on. I can remember being as young as six and complaining to my mother about my father's death. eating noises um and since they were actually divorced my mother was delighted so because my dad is otherwise a perfect human being in my eyes it's just i can't eat a meal with him um and uh yeah so i i have some very very strong memories of telling my cousins to stop eating with their mouth open and, you know, putting my fingers in my ears when at the cinema because someone was sort of slurping an icy pole behind me. I mean, even just saying the word slurp kind of a munch, they're two words that I feel like they're triggers. So it's funny how that happens.
Adeel [8:52]: Unfortunately, they sound like themselves. Yeah.
Imbi [8:55]: They do, they do, they do. So, yes, it goes quite a way back. And I probably was – it was not until my late 30s or even early 40s that I found out that misophonia was a thing. And that was sort of – it was amazing. And also, you know, I – it's a double-edged sword because I've gotten to the point where I really thought it was just something to do with me. And now there's all these other people. And so now I had lived in this bubble where everybody's eating bothered me, but now I'm really worried that my eating is bothering other people. And there's something a little, it's distressing. So I'm consciously, whenever I eat a carrot, glancing around the room to see if anyone's giving me the death stare.
Adeel [9:48]: Have you met other people who have it?
Imbi [9:51]: Yes.
Adeel [9:51]: In person? Yeah.
Imbi [9:52]: Yeah, well, this is what happens. When you write a book and you go on the publicity trail talking about misophonia, you have all these people say, oh, yeah, no, I can't deal with popcorn.
Adeel [10:05]: But even before the book? Like leading up to it or growing up?
Imbi [10:12]: No, not until probably the last few years where I've actually talked to people. I've been open. I think the workplace before my current one, so the last workplace, was the very first time I actually told people. It was a very small office, but I said, I just cannot. abide the sound of eating and that was i had to do that with self-preservation although i did have one of the situation in my mid-20s where the lovely person who sat opposite me was a big gum chewer but a really like and had a big mouth so there was a lot a lot of mastication oh so much going on and it was i actually don't know how i survived plus two years in japan um uh just just before that with you know and a lot of noodles, so many noodles. So as I matured, and it's not just about misophonia too, I think as you get older, you just get a little less protective of the weirder kinks in your personality. You're not as afraid to share them with people because you're kind of a bit more, this is who I am. So there'd been that process where I just started to... to tell more people, well, this is who I am. I'd kind of come to terms with it. My brain wasn't going to fix itself. I didn't think it was ever going to change. And then, and then, yeah, so, so, and then the book came out and now it's all out in the open and I've got all these people saying, I'm so sorry that time we went and had, had, you know, noodles together in Chinatown. And I'd be like, seriously, I don't remember if you made a noise, but if it makes you feel better, I've never wanted to physically harm you.
Adeel [12:01]: Right, right. And the book then, was it kind of inevitable that you were going to write a book about this one, basically? Or maybe talk to you about your creative path to get to that book? What came before it?
Imbi [12:14]: It's my second book, and actually my fourth manuscript. So... but I'd never written about misophonia before. It never even occurred to me. I used to be a blogger and I wrote very openly about parenting.
Adeel [12:35]: Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, I'm just curious about what other stuff you were writing about.
Imbi [12:39]: Yeah, so I was very, and that was, felt very important to me as a largely stay-at-home mom to be quite honest about what I was experiencing. And I had a gallery on my, blog called the um it's called the gallery of domestic godlessness and i encouraged people to send photos of their junk room or the stuff they found under the fridge when they moved it or you know just the things because we kind of live in these highly created curated lives and that's becoming more and more like that. And people forget that there is all this kind of mess and kind of, yeah, there's all this mess behind this perfection, that nobody can be perfect all of the time. So it felt very important for me to write about all my imperfections as a parent and as a housekeeper. So in that spirit... I think it was inevitable that I would eventually write about misophonia. I think all writers cannibalize their lives to a certain extent. But in my case, there was also that gap. There was that realization, hey, I've never read a book. with an openly misophonic character. So that was like, well, why shouldn't it be me? I know what it feels like. I've got my kill list of people that I'll refuse to go to a meal with. I've felt all the feelings. I've gotten off trains. I've moved seats in cinemas. I've left the workplace to avoid these sounds that drive me crazy. So yeah, why not me?
Adeel [14:32]: Yeah, no, those are a bunch of coping methods we're all aware of, I'm sure. Did you ever, you know, after having found out what it was, did you ever try to see a therapist? Did you ever think of, like, getting misophonia looked at, treated, you know, those kinds of things?
Imbi [14:54]: Yeah, it's interesting because a lot of people, well, and when I was going through the editorial process for the book, someone said, oh, well, why haven't her parents of, you know, the librarian with Miss Fernia, why haven't they taken her to therapy or to see a psychologist or something? I'm like, it was the 80s, you know, particularly in a, you know, suburban Australia, nobody was going to see a psychologist. So, yeah. I mean, I had very, you know, lovely, empathetic parents and they just accepted that it was a sort of a, just a quirk of my personality. So there was not all this sort of like information that we have now about, you know, mental health and sort of neurodiversity and all of the things.
Adeel [15:45]: Yeah, everyone was quirky back then. Everyone was quirky. Nobody's quirky anymore. It's, yeah, neurodivergent or...
Imbi [15:51]: Yeah, that's right. That's right. We used to be just saying, oh, that's just a little kink in that person's personality. But I did in my 20s, around the time that I was sort of being driven spare by the gum chewer in the office, I did mention it to a psychologist that I was seeing about something else. And she just listened and went, well, if it's bothering you, move to another room or, you know, move seats. And that was her. her advice and then she yeah and she also said I think I think it's because I think it's because your father left your mother and you know um and and and that's it's all tied up with that and I I think that is you know maybe part of the origin story but I also think that my brain is just pre disposed to is that that heightened sensitivity or i think you know us misophonics we're secretly kind of superheroes you know
Adeel [16:53]: Yeah, I do agree. There's some kind of, because, you know, we're all just biological experiments, whether it's coming genetically from the past or things that are happening to us. But I think, yeah, I mean, my current thinking is that a psychologist is kind of on the right track in terms of like, and you are too, like you said, where... probably some predisposition um but then also you know the environmental effects of of what happens in childhood maybe some nervous system um frazzled in some situations and then your body just looking for warning signs just keep looking for warning signs as a child that's all you can do um yeah like bruce wayne in the cave with the bats you know yeah yeah do you have siblings too
Imbi [17:45]: I do. I've actually got a full sister who's a few years younger than me and a half-sister who's 19 years younger than me. So my poor younger sister was definitely lectured a lot by me because I was sort of in my early 20s and feeling kind of bulgy and bald and was constantly telling her to close her mouth and to stop slurping her soup. But my other sister, she's a very quiet eater, probably... you know for survival um and yeah i i haven't really talked much with her about her experience of my misophonia um but i have talked about it with my father and my stepmother who would have experienced it at you know the peak of you know the raging hormones in my teens which was when I was like just just furious all the time and sitting up one end of the table and refusing to even look at them because there's even just seeing someone eat even you can't hear it I think they call it mesokinesia. Kinesia, yeah. Yeah, kinesia. I'd like to say we probably say kinesia in Australia, but I'd be lying just to cover up all my mispronunciation. But, yes, I mean, you know, even this morning someone was jiggling their leg in the cafe and I just couldn't. It was just making me physically ill. So, yes, there was just so much animosity to go back to my teen years from me, and I think they have been kind of delighted in a way to – well, not delighted, but sort of it's been eye-opening for them to read about Phoebe Cotton, who's the librarian in the book, about her experience and go, oh, okay, so, okay. that's what was going on in you, inside your brain.
Adeel [19:45]: And so did you, I mean, you know, you mentioned a bit about artists catalyzing their lives. Was there points where you were really taking, where it really got autobiographical or was it more broad strokes?
Imbi [20:03]: I feel that the character is an exaggeration. Sorry, an exaggerated version of myself. Her misophonia has kind of driven her into a state of isolation. So she's sort of left university. She's... working and living alone in a grandmother's house and she is just kind of, she's alone other than her parents who play Handel's Messiah while they eat meals just to accommodate her. So that didn't happen to me because I'm actually, I like talking with people far too much and I'm far too much of a social creature. So I kind of think it was a way of looking at what would have happened if I had let it. get the better of me.
Adeel [20:51]: Did you model it after either any one or any other condition maybe that you observed?
Imbi [21:01]: No. No, not really. It's just often, I think you find often with writers that they, and I can't speak for all writers, but I'll try, that you might take a characteristic you've observed your behavior in yourself or someone close to you and you will kind of mold it or amplify it or you know twist it edit it you know make it into a different shape so yeah so it's like um it's just that's just where that particular thing when i when i chose to write about the misophonia that's sort of where it headed
Adeel [21:44]: Yeah. You get to just kind of play around intellectually. Yeah.
Imbi [21:49]: Oh, it's so much fun. It's like being a god, Adeel. Being a god. Yes.
Adeel [21:57]: No, that's fascinating. And then, so you were, maybe talk about, I guess, yeah, your work. You've been in multiple workplaces. What kind of work? And, yeah, I mean, I guess some of your coping methods other than kind of moving around.
Imbi [22:12]: Yeah, I have mostly sort of worked in office jobs. I'm an administrator. And that is kind of a mixed bag because, you know, I always love workplaces where they encourage people to not eat lunch at their desk. So those are the best workplaces, but unfortunately not always the case.
Adeel [22:40]: Well, sometimes it's good because you know where they are and then you can go somewhere else.
Imbi [22:44]: Yeah, exactly, exactly. And you're not sort of held captive or sort of hostage by them eating at the desk next to you. And I have worked in retail and I remember particularly like in a health food store, for some reason come summertime, every second customer would have an ice cream cone that they would have bought from sort of down the road from the ice cream shop and that was, hell that was hell so the minute the temperature would get to a certain level i would just be filled with dread and be asking for the jobs that involved me being back the back of the shop not dealing with the um the customers because Yes, the ice cream thing. And especially in the heat and the ice cream, people have got this, like, they're engaged in this battle with the ice cream cone where they feel like they've got to lick up every single drop. And it's just, yeah, it's a losing battle for them. And it definitely causes another battle inside me. So, yeah.
Adeel [23:50]: Yep. Yeah, the contorted tongues and everything.
Imbi [23:54]: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Adeel [23:56]: Sorry, I'll cut that out.
Imbi [23:58]: Hashtag too much information. No, I totally know what you mean. I know what you mean. But I think more recently, I feel noise-canceling headphones, white noise. I've got also loops, which I have on my keyboard. ring um all the time for you know emergency situations i mean i find those kind of i'm still waiting for a cinema to offer kind of bluetooth um connectivity with the audio of the film so you can wear noise cancelling headphones and listen to the film at the same time um but loops have certainly helped me go back to the cinema without you know there being risk of some kind of homicide or um you know extreme situations so my um the very first time i wore them at the cinema And my partner, in an act of optimism, perhaps, you know, some might say he was foolhardy, some flirting with death. He and my stepdaughter bought a big packet of popcorn, which I have always said is my sworn enemy. And they ate the popcorn next to me, and I did not hear them. It was a miracle. It was just amazing. Really? Yeah, and I don't know if it's just the shape of my ears or the particular type of loops I bought, but it does do this funneling thing where it kind of, I can focus on the sound of the film and kind of block out all the noise that usually sort of overtakes. And it might be just a kind of placebo effect or, you know, but it's working for me. So let's not talk about it anymore in case I talk myself out of it. Yeah, yeah.
Adeel [25:57]: I won't say anything about that. Yeah, yeah. No, if it's working, that's great. And yeah, this probably is your, maybe the shape of your ears has something to do with how it's playing and sounds from certain directions. And this little bit of help makes all the difference. So, you know, if it's working, that's great.
Imbi [26:15]: Yeah, so far. So far. But watch this space. Watch the news in Australia. Yeah.
Adeel [26:22]: I will. I'll wake up. Yeah. How about, I guess, yeah, your current family, your partner, kids, how are they with, you know, knowledge of your misophonia and whatnot, other than this popcorn bold move of theirs?
Imbi [26:40]: Yeah, so bold. I... Look, they... I've always been aware of it. I just thought in my home, like outside and the rest of the world, I can't really expect people to bend to my will, but inside the house, yeah, I've been quite clear. Actually, that's probably applied. to all the housemates that I've had since I effectively left home. I did spend a few years living by myself, but, yeah, they were the few people that I had to be open with about the misophonia simply because, yeah, when it's in your house, you need to feel safe and you need to feel, you know, comfortable not living in fear. So... I haven't held back and sort of, you know, saying can you please not eat with your mouth open or maybe you could eat that over there or I might just leave the room for a little while. My partner has realised when my misophonia is at its worst and that tends to be when I'm focusing on something. So that's why at work or in a movie when you're trying to follow something or trying to... do a task that it just feels particularly bad um so if we're going to eat dinner in front of the tv which we don't do very often because you know not because we're superior people but just we just don't do it very often um and he knows that he can't start eating until there's sound If I'm operating the remote controls, he knows there's a chance that one of those controls will be lodged in a soft part of his body if he were to start eating before I've managed to kind of change sources and switch over to the Apple TV and all the things you have to do. It's just like that's when it's at its worst. That's when I'm just a hair trigger away from exploding. Mm-hmm.
Adeel [28:52]: So, yeah, I'm curious. So being an author, writing a book, having misophonia, being a parent and working, there's not a lot of time to do the things that you want to do, probably. And the things you want to do require so much focus that you could be thrown off. by things with misophonia i'm curious like how do you manage your time how do you manage your your life to kind of give yourself space to do that because um you know like you said there are certain times when we are more prone to snap and that's when we're more stressed And I find that, you know, I'm less stressed when I have more time to do the things, the creative things I want to do. I'm just curious. Maybe this is not specifically misophonia, but more of a life management thing. But does that ever become an issue? How do you how do you work through that?
Imbi [29:44]: Yeah, it's a very, that whole life work, you know, balance is tricky for anyone. But I think you're right that the misophonia is sort of like an added layer of complexity. I luckily... have the ability to um and maybe this has come from misophonia it's like when when you um have an opportunity when there is silence i'm able to focus like i have laser-like focus um and and i can sort of go in and out of focused work in that that respect um so my writing is all done in very short bursts i i just write early in the morning no one's awake um half an hour or you know 400 words and and i do that and then i let it go for the rest of the day which helps i think having those small targets because you know if you if you have this sort of expectation or and or desire to write all day every day then everything else is going to make you miserable because it's not writing so i feel by having that goal i'm able to go well i've achieved my target and and that's it um so that's that's uh something that i've learned and i think that was through blogging it's like publishing every day it's sort of like you know you develop that muscle um but Yeah, I think as the kids have gotten older and need you less or want to hang around with you less, there has been more time for me, but work has obviously not gone away and I've got a dog and I've got a partner and I'm still driving people around. So, yeah, I think by having that daily writing practice, even though I'm not writing all day, I maintain that contact with the thing that I love, so I'm still thinking about it when I'm going through the… You can still think about it, right? Yeah, yeah, because it's just there. You're not doing it, but it's there. So when you're at the traffic lights or you're doing the dishes, you find yourself kind of thinking and problem-solving and all of those things. So, yeah, it's… good. I'm not very happy when I'm not writing. I do lots of other things like sew and cross stitch and crochet and I don't even know if these pronunciations will mean anything to you Adeel but I do lots of crafty things. I'm always creative even when I'm watching I wasn't sure of like you know do you say crochet or do you say crochet? Some people say crochet. Okay, that's good. Hooray. But, yeah, it's just that need to... to um create and i think i inherited that from my grandfather who who just created all the time he worked as a a package designer like you know um food packaging he did all the design work in the sort of 50s and 60s and he would come home every night and paint pretty much all night and sleep very little and that kind of dedication to creativity I think had a huge impression on me. And I'm sounding like a wanker, aren't I? Oh, I'm so creative. I'm such a creative soul. I love it. But I think it is really, yeah, if I'm not creative, I'm not happy. So even when I'm watching TV, I'm doing my craft at the same time. So I don't know if I've just got a peculiar brain. Actually, we know that I've got a peculiar brain. But yes, there's always, I'm like an onion. There are many, many layers and probably some of them a little bit rotten, but there's a lot to me.
Adeel [33:51]: i am a lot i mean so speaking of that you know and you don't have to get you know into detail but you know a lot of us have like these comorbid um conditions like whether it's adhd or anxiety or things like that have you have you been diagnosed with other things or know that you have you know that you have other neurodivergent issues um as well
Imbi [34:16]: Yeah, it's interesting you should bring that up. I have wondered at times if I am... I do have AS... ADSD? No, what am I saying? Autism. Not ADHD. Oh, yeah, ASD. All the A's and D's and S's. No, I have wondered, and a few people have said... have, you know, remarked that perhaps I am on the spectrum. And I think, hey, you know, I'm in my mid-50s. I'm doing okay. I don't think a diagnosis at this stage would help me. So I don't think I would necessarily want to change anything. Like, I wonder, like, if you were given a magic pill to take away your misophonia, would you take it?
Adeel [35:14]: Um, depends what the side effects were. I mean, to me, to me, Mr. Funny is so wrapped into my, a, my connection to my past. Now, having thought about where it may have arisen, arisen from, um, um, it, it, it's, it's, um, it just has, I mean, there's many layers to it. It's kind of helped me. It's a different lens on the world now than when I was just always angry all the time. Now it's caused me to think more about my nervous system, which I didn't really know was a thing until very recently. So it's kind of like... Give me an interesting lens on the world. Obviously, it has its bad parts, but I don't think I would take something if it would shut... This is why I say side effects. If it shut down my sensitivities to the world. I agree. Because a lot of us are highly sensitive people, which is going to be another one of my questions. I wouldn't take it if it would shut that down and turn me into a worker bee.
Imbi [36:25]: Yeah, I think the answer that I would give to that question is I don't think, I'd worry that I wouldn't be me anymore.
Unknown Speaker [36:35]: Right.
Imbi [36:36]: And, you know, nobody is perfect and everybody has, you know, their quirks, but I just feel like there's so much of me that has been shaped and... uh buy my sensitivities um and in an answer to your question uh fabric um i can't buy anything without touching at first um there's certain fabric that i cannot put the soles of my feet on in fact just thinking about putting my feet on those just makes my tongue curl um And, yeah, I think they're the main ones. Like an ice cream eater. Yes. I'm not going to put my feet on an ice cream eater anytime soon. But, yes. I noticed very, sort of at a very young age that, you know, when I went shopping, I'd have to touch everything as I walked through the shop. So, and there's no, you know, the only time that I've ever bought anything online like fabric to wear is when I've been able to go up to someone and go, oh, can I feel that? And like, that feels okay, I'll order it. So, yes, people who just buy willy-nilly on the internet, I'm like... what are you doing? What if you can't put that on? And I have asked myself the question. I was given some really, those polyester kind of fluffy socks. There's no way I could put them on my feet. But if I was in Antarctica and freezing to death, could I do it then? I'm not sure I could.
Unknown Speaker [38:11]: I really don't think I could.
Adeel [38:15]: yeah well i mean because i that's an interesting point i don't because um again you know i've mentioned this many times i don't think you know the the misophonies i think misophonia is part of a greater um sensory um issue and not not just sensory processing disorder it starts with hearing um it can go to mr kinesia which i feel like is he's usually feels like anticipatory and then touch i think is it may not be It's another sense. I think it's all related. What kind of feeling does it give you? Does it put you in another fight or flight situation if you were to touch that polyester?
Imbi [38:53]: Yeah, yeah. It's a whole world of ick. I was thinking too in terms of, do you have an issue with milk? Because I feel like milk, there's a spectrum with milk. People think it's either good or it's bad, it's gone off. But actually, it's going off right from the minute that it comes out of the cow. It's a slow journey. And I think that I can taste milk being off before other normal people can taste milk being off. Because there have been times I cannot drink. Just the smell, let alone the taste, I cannot go near it. And people go, it's fine. I'm like, can you not taste the taste? And they're like, no, I can't. So I think that might be an extension to the milk.
Adeel [39:42]: Yeah, I mean, I don't have that, but I mean, it goes to the, you know, the thought or theory that, you know, these are, you know, we all have in us some degree of looking for danger for the sake of saving our species. And so some people might be more sensitive to certain things. Luckily, hey, if I was around a bunch of cows, I would love to have you there to help me. test the notes so i won't die the human race can continue um and that's obviously uh i'm being facetious but like i feel like a lot of these things might be related to talent you know characteristics that we need as humans but for some of us obviously it's not helpful because it's extreme or kind of warped in some way but again is it is it a biological evolutionary experiment Who knows?
Imbi [40:36]: Maybe.
Adeel [40:36]: I'm taking an optimistic view of these things, just for intellectual exercise.
Imbi [40:40]: This reminded me of one of my conversations about us being superheroes, and I did bring that up earlier. We are kind of superheroes. We do, with our heightened sense of sensitivity, I think there is definitely a place for people like us in saving the world. I'm not quite sure how or where or why, but...
Adeel [41:03]: If they let us loose during COVID, there would not be a pandemic. We'd kill all the coughing people immediately.
Imbi [41:12]: Oh, my goodness. Oh, yeah, and the sniffing. It's hay fever season here in Australia at the moment. My poor colleagues, they're just – I'm constantly like, do you want a tissue? Would you like a tissue? But, yes, I do feel, though, that there will be a point where – I don't know, we put out the call a bit like Ron Burgundy in Anchorman. We'll be like, misophonics assemble and we will all come together and we will save the world. I'm confident in that, Adeel. Absolutely confident.
Adeel [41:43]: I'm so glad we have an Anchorman reference on the podcast.
Imbi [41:48]: It was always going to be me.
Adeel [41:49]: I'm going to the Misophonia Convention in Atlanta next week, so I think I'll get my Ron Burgundy clothes on and pick a corner of the room.
Imbi [41:59]: Please do.
Adeel [42:00]: We'll go United, we'll run one through Atlanta.
Imbi [42:04]: I cannot, I'm going to be like clicking refresh on my browser, looking at the local news. Has it happened? Have they united and risen up? No, that's delightful, delightful thought. Can I ask a question about the Misophonia Convention? Because I didn't even know this was a thing. No one invited me. I've been, you know, I've been checking my inbox. I've been looking at my, no. But I just, what, the caterers must be really stressed. Like, what's the catering situation? Yeah, okay. Like, all soft foods, nothing, liquids.
Adeel [42:42]: yes so it's basically so i know i think dinner they don't they don't they don't cover dinner um i i don't know about lunch i feel like last time i've only been to two in person i think they covered lunch again it was soft it was soft food it's like pizzas and things like that yeah um in breakfast breakfast was the best example because it was all like muffins or eggs, or just all soft food, nothing crunchy at all. Obviously, there's a chewing situation, but I think people have... You can mask the chewing by turning away and being quiet about it. You can't really mask the crunch.
Imbi [43:20]: Oh, and not the ambient noise. Ambient noise can be a bit of light, lighthearted jazz being sort of piped through the speakers, so it can cover up some of that, but yes.
Adeel [43:31]: oh it's fascinating yeah yeah yeah and the space is usually just plenty of um i don't they always pick the embassy suite hotels because uh actually the main reason is because the rooms are all have are they're all suites and so they all have um two doors like well they have like the main door and then there's like the little room and then there's another door to get to the bedroom so you're like blocked by two doors the sound is for when That's great. There's a giant atrium in the middle in the lobby which does kind of reverberate but it's so spacious that you can just go off into some corner if you need to get away. So it's a pretty good setup, you know, relatively.
Imbi [44:17]: Yeah, well, kudos to the organizers. That's not an easy job. Because as we know, there's lots of, you know, it's not like there's just one expression of misophonia that there are people have so many, there's so many different triggers. And so like, even I was thinking, oh, like, I wouldn't have thought about the, any kind of water feature. I would have thought that. for me that would be a good thing because it would mask some of the other noises that it probably would make me need to go to the toilet let's be clear but um but it does that sort of like constant noise that does actually help help me but i hadn't thought oh that might not help others so oh it doesn't help when they come it doesn't come when they it doesn't help when they when the uh when they kind of pick up all the plates and everything's the clanging yeah yeah yeah yeah but uh
Adeel [45:08]: You know, usually somebody has a word.
Imbi [45:12]: Do they all eat, does everyone eat with like, I mean, it's not good for the environment, but sort of like plastic cutlery?
Adeel [45:20]: No, no, no. I don't think so. I don't think so. Yeah, I'll let you know what the situation is this year.
Imbi [45:29]: Yeah, I know. Is the crockery kind of lined with felt?
Adeel [45:35]: um no well yeah unfortunately it all has to be like uh it has to be it has to be catered by the hotel because well you know because uh money yes of course of course of course food in yeah
Imbi [45:47]: No, they're not going to belt line their own crockery because, you know, why would you do that for a bunch of misophonics? One day.
Adeel [45:55]: One day.
Imbi [45:55]: One day. One day. Like the cinema.
Adeel [45:58]: My cinema dream. When they hear about the news coming out of Australia, everyone is like, ooh. Insurance doesn't cover that.
Imbi [46:08]: Yeah, I know. Maybe we should all like insurance. It's the blight of us all, but also could save us.
Adeel [46:19]: So, yeah, no, that's, yeah, that's the truth. And, yeah, they should probably do a little bit more marketing to, you know, to reach people like yourself. Oh, I know.
Imbi [46:31]: Get more people over there. Yeah.
Adeel [46:33]: Nothing would come from Australia.
Imbi [46:35]: Well, it might. It might. With a box of my books and, you know, it could be my chance to break into the U.S. market. Yeah.
Adeel [46:45]: Yeah, well, I mean, I'm going to be there partly to sign books, not a fiction book, but it sounds like Missithonia, the book that Dr. Jane Gregory wrote.
Imbi [46:53]: Yeah, yeah, which I've read.
Adeel [46:55]: Who is Australian?
Imbi [46:57]: Yes, I know. There's a clinic in England, in London, that she runs.
Unknown Speaker [47:03]: Oxford.
Imbi [47:03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's super smart. She's super smart. She's like, she's our poster girl, isn't she? Really?
Unknown Speaker [47:11]: I mean, yeah.
Imbi [47:13]: And one of Australia's own. So yes, I'm very proud. The fellow Australian.
Adeel [47:19]: yeah um yeah so yeah we will definitely have one of these uh one of these years we should uh should have you over i mean this podcast this episode will i think reach a lot of people too and it's coming around the time of the podcast around the convention so i'll definitely be spreading the word oh please do So, yeah, I mean, you know, we're coming up close to an hour. I don't know. Oh, yeah. Well, actually, what are you working on now? I'd be curious to kind of hear. Not that anything has to do with Misophonia. I'm just kind of curious. Are there writing projects, other things?
Imbi [47:57]: Yeah. So I've become obsessed with recycling fabric scraps. So I've been working on just sort of like free-form sewing, hand stitching and machine sewing bits of fabric scraps in artistic ways on other bits of material, you know, material on material. Really fun. I don't know where that's going to go, but it gives me pleasure, especially because there's a lot of colour sorting. Yes, I am on the autism spectrum. Anyway, I'm just listening to myself speak. But the main thing I'm working on is I am writing a new book. It's looking more at sort of the challenges of parenting teenagers, particularly across sort of multiple homes, and also dog ownership because we got a dog a couple of years ago. I grew up with dogs, but I have really owned a dog for many years. I've really enjoyed the company of dogs. And here's the weird thing. The sound of my dog eating doesn't bother me in the same way that humans eating bothers me. Why? How does that work?
Adeel [49:13]: Well, if you ask, I'm not a scientist. Well, I'm an engineer. I'll tell people that I have some scientific background. But I think it ultimately comes down to context and your child self assigning fear to something and knowing that a dog isn't purposely going to, well, especially a dog that you own isn't looking to cause harm to you, but
Unknown Speaker [49:43]: Yeah.
Adeel [49:44]: It's not a warning to something that a human could do to you. That's why I think babies don't really bother me.
Imbi [49:54]: Well, that's right. Babies aren't going to bother you.
Adeel [49:57]: My own babies.
Imbi [49:59]: Yeah. Oh, okay. Yes. I'm glad to put that qualifier in. But I think, too, that I'm more forgiving. If I've told someone and they make a noise, then that is the worst because it feels like a willful disregard for me and my things. But yes, my dog doesn't know. He knows not what he does. Right. So it feels easier to kind of like to let that go. But yes, when you have kind of confided or shared with someone and then they forget, then that kind of hurts. That hurts, doesn't it?
Adeel [50:40]: That's why I find it questionable, and we're almost an hour into the podcast. I don't know if there's any researchers still listening, but the research that happens sometimes, they just pick noises from a sound bank, and they don't really have this context about it. They're just looking for disgusting-sounding noises. They're not doing this differentiation between someone you know, someone you've told. and a dog or a baby. I think that needs to be researched. I mean, I think all the research needs to focus on, on differentiating between those. And so unfortunately we're still at the phase of research where we just consider all the same.
Imbi [51:21]: Yeah.
Adeel [51:21]: Tsk, tsk, researchers.
Imbi [51:23]: I think, I think it is, um, there is something in that and, um, Yeah, I think it's good that my dog's life is not at risk, because he is a good boy, even when he eats a bone.
Adeel [51:44]: Yeah, and then do you find, reciprocally, I mean, are you, I mean, how's your misophonia around the dog versus not around the dog? Is he affecting you emotionally?
Imbi [51:58]: Oh, that's interesting. I mean, he is a very huggable dog. And I think with everything that's sort of gone on over the last few years, having a dog to hug, I would recommend it to everybody. I mean, obviously have allergies or I don't know, fear of dogs, but dogs are just so, they're a great anchor. So maybe his presence does kind of calm me and make me less susceptible. I don't know. I haven't kind of measured that. I've asked him lots of questions. He still hasn't answered the fundamental question, which is, are you a fluffy puppy or are you a plucky puppy? Or are you the fluffiest puppy or the puppiest fluffy? He will not answer that, so I don't think he's going to go any deeper.
Adeel [52:49]: at this stage so it sounds like my next question was going to be do you think he ever because you at least you said in the home are clear about misophonia do you think in some way he picks up on that
Imbi [53:04]: Actually, you know, I'm just thinking in terms of – because he does sleep on our bed because we're those kind of dog owners. If he scratches or licks, that will drive me insane. And I just put my hand on him and he will stop because he knows that I don't like it. So I think, yeah, they do pick up those cues. Also, I will say this. When he's eating, he's not – eating i'm not lying on the ground next to his bowl and his mouth so i think there is that kind of like the um the sound sort of spatial arrangement is also kind of protects him in a way whereas if he was sitting up at the table eating like that directly in my ear i think maybe i would have a few more things to say about it so yes right like those dogs playing poker um Exactly. Exactly like those folks play.
Adeel [54:02]: Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we can leave around our, and around, around that, that, that, that image. Yeah. Anything else you want to share about your Misophonia journey? And yeah, I mean, I don't know, maybe some interesting things that you've, that you've come up since you published the book and met all these people.
Imbi [54:26]: I think, I think the thing that has really struck me, and it's certainly the experience of the main character in my book, is that I think it is important to be open and honest as much as you can. And all those years that I kind of didn't tell people and just suffered in silence, When, you know, it's not like people could ever stop making noise. I mean, all these noises are just people being people. They're just being human beings. And so I often tell people, like, oh, sorry, I'm making noise. And I'm like, it's not you I'm angry at the noise. And so in people being people... if you are a little bit more open then they can make decisions they can make um they can be more aware they have that that chance to to be more considerate worse if you're just in the corner just seeding and writhing in in physical pain um you know it it it could be um it's detrimental i think to you um in terms of you know your your health on all levels but also it could be driving a wedge between you and other people um and i think of this example that since i sort of came out as a misophonic at my current workplace i was down at the coffee machine with one of my work friends and he um there was someone slurping their their noodles in the corner and i was on high alert wanting to finish making the coffee as quickly as possible and get away and i went very quiet and this this this workmate whose name is no because um uh that well that's his name um he he he kind of looked around and he saw the guy slipping noodles and he looked at me and he said do you need to go and i said yes and he said i'll finish your coffee you go back to your desk and i thought before I come out, he wouldn't have known that. He wouldn't have known that's why I'd gone quiet. He might have taken that personally and thought that I was upset with him or angry with him. He might have dilly-dallied and kind of taken a bit longer or kind of said, oh, actually, I'm going to kind of, you know, do some frothing of this soy milk. You wait here while I go and get the soy. You know, it could have been... But because we'd had that honesty and I had kind of, you know, taken the time to speak and educate him about my misophonia, he was... you know, had the foresight to sort of, you know, or had the tools to recognise what was happening and put me out of my misery. So I think that's a good cautionary tale. You know, be brave and be honest.
Adeel [57:31]: Yeah, it's an encouraging tale, I think, to people who might be listening and are wondering, should I tell this person that I'm always around? Should I be honest? Because a lot of this, you know, we've been burned so many times by not being taken seriously, being invalidated, being dismissed. But it's important to never lose sight of the fact that there are situations like...
Imbi [57:55]: you experienced where a little openness led to understanding and validation and and kind of and ultimately it wasn't a big deal for that person you know no it wasn't a big deal and you know what if he hadn't have noticed it i wouldn't have been angry with him because he's not misophonic so why would he you know um so you know we we live in those situations every day where the people around us aren't experiencing the world in the same way as we are so I don't blame them for not picking up that excuse but because we'd had that conversation he saw my moment of discomfort and rather than assuming it was about him he kind of realized that it was the person in the corner slapping their noodles and you know so so anyway it's just it's it's Life, life a deal. People, like it's a wonderful soup, isn't it? So many different ingredients and so many different experiences. I feel very, very happily human with all the messiness that that involves. And yeah, but also I am...
Adeel [59:01]: Do you think, and this is going to prolong the podcast, but do you think, you know, there's more awareness of misophonia, there's more people who seem to have misophonia and other conditions. Do you think, you know, part of it's that's awareness, but do you think... I don't know, we've become more homogenous and are not as open or aware to all these like neurodivergent, these realities, be able to look at other people through, you know, through their I sometimes wonder about that. Yes, there's a lot of talk about newer versions and all this stuff, but I feel like we're still, I don't know, we've become a little bit more and more homogenous because all of our media looks the same. Yeah. we've had all this ad you know decades of advertising beaten into our skulls um i feel like there there's some strangely there's more awareness of mental health issues but it just seems to me maybe this is me getting older but it seems to be just people generally being a little bit homogenous and so um there's not as much willingness to or patience or time to think about other people's, what other people are really feeling and just kind of giving them some slack.
Imbi [60:25]: Yes, yes and no. I feel like, I mean, I... I also think there's, you know, it's that old, quite another film, The Incredibles, like when we're all special, then no one is special. And I think sort of like, I kind of of an age where, of labels and and sort of identity there's a there's there's that risk of like what am i trying to say here um of of yeah normalizing Because it's just like it feels like every teenager I know has ADHD at the moment. And that may actually be the case. But it just feels like then that's become normalized, that everybody has ADHD. And maybe that's just the human brain. But I think that's kind of a bit oversimplifying it there. But I think we're all... to say some people are neurodiverse and other people are kind of, you know, neurotypical. I just feel any kind of binary or any kind of, I think everything's a spectrum and I get really concerned. I don't ever really describe myself as being neurodiverse, although I probably am, but I don't know where you draw that line between. the typical and the diverse it's just it just is is worrying and with the number of people who are getting seeking diagnoses and and getting them and then sort of like leaning into these not labels i mean It's not just about having a label. There's obviously a whole raft of experiences behind that label, which make being in the kind of the typical world quite hard. But there is that sort of, do you know what I'm trying to say? Because I don't know what I'm trying to say.
Adeel [62:28]: No, I think you might be saying... You tell me what I'm trying to say. Okay, I will tell you. Here's the 10 steps of what you... No, but one thing you may be saying, or at least is adjacent, is the fact that these days there's so many labels available to us that there's fear that people might take a label and then feel like they can't get out. Like, feel like that's their identity. Maybe that's an adjacent thing to what you're saying. So it gives people an automatic sense of helplessness. But... But I also... I also don't like the term neurotic. I may usually just say this on this... I'll say that on this podcast. Because, yeah, I don't like this binary stuff. Yeah. Because I feel like... I think everything has a spectrum. Not just... Not just autism. And... Not everything is necessarily a hard disorder. And... And so, yeah, I guess I'm kind of hitting a block. It's an hour into it, but I think... Yeah, I think... I think a lot of people are used to, I think society's been trained to like, if you're sick, if you have a headache, take ibuprofen. If you have this, this, and this, you are that. And you need to be cured of it. I think, I don't know, I just wish that people were not so binary. And yes, misophonia is rough. But maybe going back to your question halfway in, like, would you take a pill? I would think twice about that. At least before I take it, try to hold on to the superpowers that you were talking about. And this applies to, I think, not just Misophonia, but maybe other conditions as well.
Imbi [64:32]: But also, you could even extend that to kind of things like, you know, surgeries or sort of treatments which change your physical appearance. Like, of course I wish I had, you know, nicer hair and... um and um longer legs go really long torso and short ass legs but um but but there it's also what makes me me and i've grown up with the name imbi which is not a grown-up's name nobody takes a person called imbi seriously but again When it came, like, when I had, I've been married twice, because I like to say that I'm Australia's Jackie Collins. I'm slowly gathering husbands. But I haven't changed my name either time, because years and years of being in Benini, like, that's who I am. So sometimes I think... Yeah, I think there was a point. We are at the hour.
Adeel [65:32]: Be yourself. Enjoy the positive things in yourself.
Imbi [65:36]: Well, and also all the, I mean, I think a friend of mine, and I actually used this metaphor in my first book. So she once said to me, there were all these things about me which I just thought were hideous and horrible and terrible and made me a monster. And she said, that's all the stuff. You think about a rock that's sort of like in the sun. It's in the sun. You lift the rock and there's all the worms and everything underneath. But... on the outside it's all clean and warm and and she said the whole thing is the rock not just the underside of the rock so i think this sort of um idea that we can take a pill or we can kind of get a surgery or whatever and we're just gonna you know fix ourselves i don't think we're a we can ever fix ourselves to the point that we're perfectly happy i think it's sort of like more realistic to kind of embrace your imperfections um and and and at the same time not use your imperfections as an excuse to be an asshole so excuse my language but but that does like you know look we all have to operate in the world and and of course you know which is why I don't expect people to bend to my misophonia because, as I said, humans making human noises. So I'm not going to go in kind of on a rampage through city and shout at everyone for eating noodles, but maybe I will. But yes, it's just that we're kind of... i think we we're losing our ability to be comfortable in our own skin and i think that should without altering that skin you know it feels like a lot of people opt out of things these days you know you don't like your name you change your name you know um and and sometimes and sometimes it's necessary to do those things but sometimes it's it's about learning to Be okay with what you have. And that's, I think, a good note to end my rant.
Adeel [67:39]: No, no, no, no. Hey, if it wasn't going to be you, it was going to be me. We were both meandering, but I like those moments of these conversations.
Imbi [67:53]: We covered some ground. We solved the world's problem.
Adeel [67:58]: I'll have AI summarize this and maybe tell us what point we were trying to make.
Imbi [68:04]: Oh my goodness. Yeah, AI will sort us out.
Adeel [68:10]: Well, Envy, yeah, thanks again for coming on. It was great talking to you. Yeah, it was so much fun. I wish you the best with the book. Obviously, like, there's not anyone listening. Well, you can get the book anywhere, but I'll have links in the show notes.
Imbi [68:25]: Yeah, I think it is now available.
Adeel [68:28]: Is it released everywhere?
Imbi [68:29]: Okay, okay. Well, no, it's only been published in Australia and New Zealand. It is going to be published in Italy within the next year. But I do believe you used to only be able to buy it, the audio book, which is read beautifully, not by me. via Amazon, but I think you can actually buy the physical book now in places other than Australia. So for anyone who has misophonia or has a misophonic in their life, give the gift of a book with a misophonic in it. And you could come to the Misophonia and stay for the other things because it's not just all about Misophonia. It is a part of it, but it's not all about Misophonia.
Adeel [69:17]: Misophonia is a rich, untapped landscape.
Imbi [69:20]: It is.
Adeel [69:21]: There's plenty to it. Yeah, thanks again, Emmy. Great talking to you. Wish you the best.
Imbi [69:27]: Yeah, thanks so much.
Adeel [69:28]: Thank you again, Imbi. Everyone, please check out her website, imbinim.com. You can go to the show notes and just click there. If you liked this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or rating. Just hit the five stars wherever you listen to this podcast. You can hit me up by email at helloatmissinfunnypodcast.com or go to the website at missinfunnypodcast.com. It's even easier just to send a message on Instagram at missinfunnypodcast. You can follow there, on Facebook, on X, it's a MissinFunny show. And support the show by visiting the Patreon at patreon.com slash missinfunnypodcast. Music, as always, is by Moby. And until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.
Unknown Speaker [70:16]: Thank you. Thank you.