#200 - Georgie
Transcript
Adeel [0:01]: Welcome to the Misophonia Podcast, and today we've hit episode 200. My name's Adeel Ahmad, and I have Misophonia. On this milestone episode, I'm talking to Georgie, a recent neuroscience and psychology dual degree grad from the University of Colorado, Boulder. This is perhaps a fitting conversation for the 200th episode because, like many of the young students and grads I've interviewed, Joji represents, I hope, a better researched and informed future for Misophonia, spearheaded by fellow Misophones. Georgie's childhood also shares many characteristics that I've found to be common among us. That is, periods of walking on eggshells, turbulence, and volatility. She also mentions other sensory sensitivities such as visual triggers and the sensitivity to vibrations. She talks about coping methods, including white noise, headphones, and seeking accommodations at school. She explores the potential connection, actually, between misophonia and diet. And we talk about the many comorbid conditions, also very common among us, that she's been diagnosed with, and the medications she's taken and their effects on her misophonia. We talk about her interest in psychology and neuroscience and how she wants to use those to actually pursue a career in clinical psychology. And of course, she shares her experiences of social challenges and that shame and guilt that's often associated with misophonia. After this incredible show, let me know what you think. You can reach out by email at hello at misophoniapodcast.com or hit me up on Instagram or Facebook at Misophonia Podcast. please head over and leave a quick review or rating wherever you listen to the show. It really helps drive us up in those algorithms that help us reach more listeners. And I want to say again, episode 200, thanks again for the incredible ongoing support of our Patreon supporters who've helped us get here and will help us reach the next 200 episodes. If you feel like contributing, you can read all about the various levels at patreon.com slash misophonia podcast. All right, now here's my conversation with Georgie. Georgie, welcome to the podcast. Good to have you here.
Georgie [2:28]: Yeah, thank you for having me.
Adeel [2:30]: So yeah, you want to tell us kind of roughly where you're located and stuff?
Georgie [2:34]: Yeah, so currently I'm in Colorado. I just graduated from CU Boulder with a dual degree in psychology and neuroscience. And I'm taking a year out to try and figure out exactly what I want to do. So I'm just kind of floating around right now in Colorado having fun.
Adeel [2:54]: Yeah, that was great. I'm sure it's going to be great things, whatever you're up to, whatever you end up doing. So we just for the audience, we have a lot of notes to go through with Georgie. Fascinating story. I've been really excited for this call. There's a lot of overlap with, of course, you know, what I've been thinking about, what listeners have been, what past guests have been talking about. So, yeah. Georgie, do you want to, I know we talked about maybe starting backwards or starting forwards. Let's just start from the beginning maybe, if that's okay with you. Do you want to talk a little bit about what things were like when you first started noticing misophonia in your life?
Georgie [3:37]: yeah um i think like i've had anxiety pretty much my whole life like i've had um panic attacks since the age of like six you know really young um and it wasn't until i was about like i mean i guess this is still pretty young like eight or nine was when i started noticing my misophonia um and i know on some of the other podcasts some people mention like it's just like they woke up and they kind of just noticed it um which i think is what happened to me um my memory from back then is not that great, but I do remember, like, one really vivid memory, and I think that's when it all started, was I was having, like, a parent-teacher meeting, and I just remember being really irritated by my mother's voice, like, the way she pronounced her S's and T's, like, they were very soft, and for some reason that, it's still my biggest trigger, but that was, like, my first trigger, Um, and then I went out in the hallway. I didn't really know what was happening. I was just kind of agitated and I like grabbed my little eye touch and just started listening to music because I didn't know what else to do. Um, and I feel like from then on I've, I've had like pretty bad misophonia. Um, my mother's voice being the worst trigger. Um, Yeah, I mean, I remember at that age, I didn't know what was going on. I mean, I'm still labeled as irritable, but I would be labeled as irritable, rude, trying to be controlling of the situation. And then I just kind of took that on and felt guilty because I didn't know what was happening.
Adeel [5:27]: I was just feeling... Labeled by your family members.
Georgie [5:30]: Yeah, yeah. It's like... I don't know, like, for me, I feel like other people could relate. Like, when you're in a state of pure rage, it's hard to be polite and gentle with what you say. When, like, the only thing you feel is, like, adrenaline and rage and, you know, you're about to cry. It's just impossible to be nice. So I still kind of... have issues trying to approach that, trying not to get snappy or, like, irritable, um, because it's, like, seemingly impossible for me. Um, but, yeah, um, and I guess when I was about 12 was when I... read online what misophonia was. And I was like, oh my god, other people experience this too. I'm not alone.
Adeel [6:24]: Which was probably the most... About 10-ish years ago then, right? About 10 years ago or so is when you... Yeah. Our article started to come out. It started to hit the media a little bit more.
Georgie [6:35]: Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, ten years ago. But there still wasn't much information about it then, it was just like, oh, this is a brief description, that's it. So I was like, well, at least I'm not alone, and at least I know I'm, like, not totally crazy. But yeah, I noticed my misophonia kind of, like, gets worse and gets better, because I also have- I've been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and I have- I've actually been diagnosed with, like, a lot. Bipolar, OCD, generalized anxiety disorder, um, panic disorder, um, yeah, misophonia, all that, uh, and it- it kind of fluctuates with it a bit. Um, I notice when- I know, like, I read online- Some people think OCD and misophonia are kind of connected in some way. I feel like that's true for me, for, like, some of my triggers. Like, I'll ruminate on it, I'll obsess over it, I'll, like, predict it, and it'll just kind of consume my whole day. I feel like that kind of relates with my OCD a bit. But yeah, I mean... I don't know. Yeah, I've always had it.
Adeel [8:03]: And what were you, I'm curious, going back to kind of like that, around that time when you had the parent-teacher interview, that was a couple of years after, I guess, you said you started having panic attacks. Were there, I mean, do you remember things going on in the house? I mean, you mentioned things with your brothers. I'm curious if, not that there's any, you know, direct causal effect that's known, but I'm just kind of curious because a lot of us have had kind of things we observe and witness that kind of maybe you could understandably hijack our nervous system and maybe cause some issues. I'm just curious if you can get into maybe some of the stuff that's happening around that time.
Georgie [8:44]: Yeah, my family life is really chaotic. I guess around that time... I think throughout my whole life, even now, there's been a lot of anger in the house. I think all of us are really highly sensitive people, but none of us have the tools to regulate strong emotions when they arise. So there's always a lot of tension in the house, and everyone absorbs everyone's negative energy. Everyone will just feed off of it. And I think, yeah, no one really knew how to... appropriately respond to certain triggering situations. So I think that probably kind of increased my anxiety around that age. I'm very sensitive to the foods I eat. I think that also played a role. like even now i get really anxious when i eat a lot of sugar or gluten or dairy like that plays a huge factor in my anxiety um and i think that did back then also i had a lot of um like i don't know i think separation anxiety is the right word i would get yeah i would get like really anxious when any one of my family members would leave and that could trigger a kind of like a meltdown as a kid but I don't know I think I tried to hide my anxiety from a very young age so I just like go in my room and express it that way I wouldn't really show it in front of the family how would you express it at that age in your room by yourself um usually just cry i guess yeah i don't i don't really know i think yeah as i got older it kind of stayed the same i guess just went to my room and cried um or if i was like angry i'd hit something on myself
Adeel [10:58]: was there any um it sounds like you said like people just kind of feeding off each other like something would get triggered and we're just going to get worse was there any um anyone at any you know a time during these situations could try to be maybe the voice of reason kind of thing was there any consoling comforting like how did you get over some of these things was it just you just had to go and cry it out that was that was the routine in the family um
Georgie [11:25]: My mom is, like, the more of a calmer one in the house, so she would provide the comfort. Um... So I guess... Yeah, like, she helped sometimes. I guess... With, like, Misophonia specifically, she's kind of been, like... She tries to be supportive, but, like, she... She doesn't... Back of her mind doesn't really... Yeah, she doesn't... She experiences... I feel like everyone in my house has some trigger. Like, I know they do, but it's not anywhere to the, like, extent I experience it. And I have, like, 50 or 100 triggers. Like, everything triggers me, whereas they just have, like, one or two. So they kind of understand, but, like, they're more of, like... I don't know. I feel like before they really understood, it was more just like, oh, you should deal with it. It's kind of a rationally response to that type of feedback I'd get from them.
Adeel [12:28]: Right. kind of like, you know, um, kind of, I would think it like use your kind of, um, prefrontal, uh, cerebral cortex to just kind of like change your thinking kind of a, I mean, a CBT approach, which works in some situations, but, um, might not get to that kind of root cause all the time. Just kind of snap out of it.
Georgie [12:53]: Yeah. Yeah. Um, Yeah.
Adeel [12:59]: And so, what about, so your other family members, to this point, I mean, did it cause, did misophonia cause, like, you know, I don't know, separation or rift kind of between yourself and other family members? Because, you know, you said your mom was the initial trigger. And now you say you have 50 to 100. I'm assuming maybe the other family members also kind of became triggers and...
Georgie [13:26]: yeah every everyone in the family triggers me in some way um yeah i guess it yeah i know misophonia gets worse over time and i know my triggers have definitely developed um but yeah i guess i don't know i think it was around my teen years, whenever I started getting triggered by my other family members. Yeah. I know in my household there was a lot of issues with boundaries. So, like, if, you know, a noise bothers me, no one really cares. They're not gonna really accommodate, like... footsteps in the hallway. Hey, can you walk a little quieter? Hey, can you not slam your door, please? You know, like, no one would listen to me. Or, like, in COVID, one of my biggest triggers was my brother, he would play his bass guitar, and you could, like... hear it and feel it in every square inch of the house, and he'd turn it up, and he had, like, a concert-grade amplifier, and it was just, like, pure hell, and he just didn't care at all. Like, he was like, just deal with it, and I would, I remember I, many times, I went to my bathroom and just, like, sobbed and, like, put my hand in my, I was just having, like, a whole, like, panic attack, and... break down because I couldn't escape the noise no matter where in the house I'd go and it's because my family lives in Houston it's really hot outside so I can't just go outside and sit outside because it's just unbearably hot like you can't do that yeah so yeah I guess I've been kind of like tormented in a way with it but I guess my brothers they have their own mental health issues which make it kind of difficult um because it's like i don't know i have some empathy for what they go through but at the same time i feel like my needs were never really um like validated by by them yeah
Adeel [15:50]: So, um, yeah, that's, yeah, you know, Miss Ponyard, obviously, and we feel it too, and that kind of probably contributes to our shame and guilt is it does. we realize that it sounds kind of crazy and it feels, um, like it's not as important, but the effect that it has on us, obviously, if you're ending up in the bathroom sobbing so much, I mean, it's, it is serious and should be, should be validated. Um, you also said there's something a couple of times that I kind of wanted to notice. You mentioned other senses other than hearing, which is something I, I try to harp on a lot. Obviously visual triggers, we can get to that. I'm assuming you have visual triggers, but you also mentioned, um, the sense of touch, obviously, the vibrations. But then also you said something about food earlier. And I'm really convinced that it's much more than sound. I don't get to talk about the food thing as much. Do you want to go into a little bit about your other sensitivities? You mentioned some of your notes that it's related to stress a little bit. I don't know, do you want to talk about a little bit of that? Because I'm sure people can relate to kind of other senses other than hearing that can kind of get triggered.
Georgie [17:00]: Yeah, I think I've read a few times that people with misophonia can also have the visual aspect of it.
Adeel [17:07]: Yeah, misokinesia, yeah.
Georgie [17:08]: yeah i definitely have that um i remember like my first trigger um when i was young maybe like eight nine was like my brother he would like play with his ears like a form of self self-soothing and something about that just really bugged me and he if i told him to stop he would just not stop and that just drove me insane or just seeing people chew gum if i can't hear them and i can see them like at the corner of my eye it drives me like insane as much as it would if the noise was actually happening Or if people have restless leg syndrome in class or something, that really bugs me. As far as other senses, yeah, I guess since my brother would play his bass, I'm very sensitive to vibrations. If there's stomping or something, even if I can't hear it, if I feel it, it gives me the same feeling. Or music from a neighbor and in like a college dorm or something that'll really stress me out um and as far as the food thing i think i meant i don't know what i put in the notes well you did well i guess you mentioned ibs which may be a little bit different oh right right um I was... Okay, wait.
Adeel [18:40]: I'll tackle... Well, then you mentioned food earlier, so now I'm getting... I'm probably confusing the situation. But I just gotta say when you mentioned other senses. I was like, oh, taste. Maybe taste? Yeah.
Georgie [18:52]: I get it with smell. Yeah, let's talk about that. Yeah. But it's like... With smell, it's like mostly in the mornings. If I'm woken up by a smell, like... toast or coffee like it just really angers me i don't know why um no one else i know experiences that i just i just hate it because like i can't fall back to sleep if i have that smell it's just so like overwhelming when people like barely smell it or something um yeah uh with that ibs thing um i don't think that's really related to my misophonia but i think it's related to my anxiety because my anxiety and stress levels have been so high pretty much my whole life i think that's really thrown off like my um gut microbiome um you know stuff like that i have like chronic pain. Um, no one knows why. And I think it's because of, um, stress and anxiety and mesophilia definitely plays a big role in that.
Adeel [20:06]: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, and do you want to talk a little bit about, you know, we did talk about the parent teacher thing. How did you get through school? Like, did you get accommodations at all? Um,
Georgie [20:18]: yeah um yeah i had to get accommodations um my main one that i used that really helped me was white noise headphones some people won't allow it but i have these um non-bluetooth i actually have them right here these non-bluetooth um wired headphones and you just charge them and put them on and they have helped me in every college exam I've taken. If I don't have those, I have air plugs. Those help. I also have accommodations for like a private room or a room with not as many people. But even then, I've been in a room with one other person and they've had a cold and they're just sniffling the whole time. And it's just like I'm on the verge of tears because I'm already stressed for the exam. The person next to me needs a tissue. That's happened a few times and that's really stressful. Because, yeah, not a lot of professors really understand what it is. They give me the accommodations, but they don't. fully get it. Gotcha. Okay.
Adeel [21:33]: What about friends growing up? Did you, at school and otherwise, did you, how did you tell people? Did they notice?
Georgie [21:41]: I didn't really tell people just because it's, like, you know, strange. Like, it doesn't really make sense to someone who's never experienced it. So I'm like, okay, well, I don't want to appear, like, you know, really weird or anything. Right. I think... I think sometimes if someone's really bugging me, I'll say, hey, could you try not to make that noise? But then again, that comes off as trying to be controlling or bossy or whatever. I just try not to say anything as much as possible.
Adeel [22:19]: You have to probably hold it in a lot then if you're... your best friend or somebody or you want a movie theater we can get into kind of like things that sorry i'm moving my hands a lot i don't know if that's a trigger but uh no that's not your um you can get into your coping methods and things you had to avoid and whatnot but uh yeah how did i guess how did you deal with like you probably have friends who trigger you yeah um
Georgie [22:47]: If it's eating, and they don't have a lot on their plate, I'll just deal with it. But if it's like... I don't know. I'm like, you know, I need a break. Usually I have some stamina. But if it's like... i know you mentioned movie theaters that's a huge trigger for me like i tried to watch barbie last summer with my boyfriend and i was just i was like nearly crying the whole time because i was like okay i was looking at the seats and the people next to me and i was like they don't have food this is great and then this lady pulls out a bag of popcorn from her purse and i was like oh my god and she she's just smacking away and i'm like how how can anyone focus when this is going on and my boyfriend doesn't ever get triggered by noises so he's just like okay i'll switch with you and then the person next to me was chewing like some like chewy candy and i was like oh my like i didn't even focus on the movie i was just too distracted with being angry and i i said to him i'm like i'm not doing this again like i i can't go to movie theaters like it just the movie for me yeah
Adeel [23:57]: Regular theater and symphony concerts are no better. Speaking of your boyfriend doesn't get triggered, did you tell him right away? Did he know? Obviously, he's switching seats. That's nice.
Georgie [24:15]: yeah um i think i told him pretty early on i don't exactly remember when but he triggers my misophonia of course so he knows he's like the receding end of my you know neuroticism when it comes to that um so he he tries his best to be really like supportive and accommodating to me but there are things he can't control like his his breathing like i can't make him stop breathing you know like there's some triggers he does um like i don't i'm i'm a lot to talk about triggers right okay like a big one is like tmj like jaw clicking yes I don't know if anyone notices that, but, like, my ex had it really badly, um, and I- it's probably, like, a fourth of the reason I broke up with him, because it was just- it was just intolerable, um, and my current boyfriend, like, has it, like, it's very soft, but it's- it's just- it's still, like, so, like, I don't know, anger-inducing.
Adeel [25:33]: Did anyone in your family have it when you grew up? I'm just kind of curious if there was any continuity with that kind of sound.
Georgie [25:41]: No. Yeah, I don't know. I guess... I don't know if this is sidetracking. My lost relationship was really abusive, so maybe I interpret that noise with a lot more hatred and anger than I would have otherwise. But yeah, no one else in my family.
Adeel [26:03]: has that i mean there's some eating noises in my family that bother me but not not that specific one gotcha when um and i jump around to you so um i was just thinking when when you mentioned when you found out that it had a name did you tell your family and what i mean i don't know if you covered this already but i'm just curious if their if their reactions changed at all
Georgie [26:27]: um yeah my my mom i don't know if it was my mom or i that found it one of us found it i remember talking to her about it and she's like oh like you know it's a real thing like this is good like you're not alone um but no i don't think anyone else really understood um i know sorry i know my mom um
Adeel [26:55]: she has a couple misophonia triggers and one of them is like nail picking but it like it doesn't elicit nearly the same reaction as a sound would for me you know so right i don't know i'm curious now what's the situation um we'll cover i mean dad's come up a lot in the conversation because many you know a lot of us have had i don't know dads who've had temporary issues and whatnot i'm just kind of curious briefly but like what's what's his deal uh it was you know it was there um you know you did mention a lot of tension in the household i'm just kind of curious what he contributed yeah um my dad he's he's a very like caring generous man
Georgie [27:47]: But he also has really bad anger issues. So he can be really sweet and genuine and kind and also be really explosive.
Adeel [27:57]: Flip pretty quickly?
Georgie [28:00]: Yeah. A lot of yelling. A lot of tension. Passive aggressiveness. And it can just switch. Yeah, so a lot of inconsistent emotions I had to deal with, or walking on eggshells, I guess.
Adeel [28:21]: Unknown boundaries, you didn't know necessarily when things would change.
Georgie [28:28]: No.
Adeel [28:28]: You had to be on guard all the time.
Georgie [28:29]: Yeah, and my dad and one of my brothers, they still kind of have a really strained relationship. They get on each other's nerves all the time, so there's... There was one point where there was an argument, like, every day for, like, a few years, you know? Like, there was a lot of tension in the house. You couldn't really relax. Yeah. Yeah.
Adeel [28:57]: How did, well, then how did you, I mean, you obviously went through school and are doing well. I'm just kind of curious for people who are listening, who maybe people have a lot of, you know, walking in actual situations, like what were your coping methods like at home and how did you kind of like make it through school and, you know, stay positive and be successful?
Georgie [29:20]: With all the tension at home, but somehow you made it through.
Adeel [29:27]: You went through college. You had good grades and all that stuff.
Georgie [29:33]: That's a good question. I think it's just like... I don't know. That's a really good one. How did I make it through? I guess I'm just used to it growing up. And... I think school, that was, like, one of my consistencies.
Adeel [29:55]: Yeah.
Georgie [29:56]: Even though I, like, hate it, it's still, like, one of my consistencies. Yeah. So I guess that kind of helped me. That makes sense. Yeah. But that being said, like, I know I have my degrees and whatever. Like, school has always been a real struggle for me because of my ADHD and misophonia. Mm-hmm. I don't easily get good grades at all. I have to try five times harder than anyone in my class to do well. So that's been kind of discouraging. And then there's also the home situation. Both of my brothers I mentioned to you i don't know if mentioned here but they have um schizoaffective disorder so they've been in and out of psychotic episodes and i still have to keep on doing school and stuff um and i guess after going through that i i just i can't go through anything and do school because yeah they're i don't know psychosis is no joke um living with two of them that go in and out sometimes at the same time is terrifying um and also just like visiting them at the mental hospital like my brother who's like my they're my best friends and then they go through these psychotic episodes and their whole personality changes and you just see this like shell of what they once were like that's really disturbing and i think that kind of contributed a lot to my mental health issues um
Adeel [31:36]: You said a few things there. I know it sounds like we're straying, but I don't think we are. But you said you're like, obviously, they weren't validating your misophonia. You just said that they're your best friends. And then you had probably to observe being that close. You probably had to observe always on guard to look for these changes. How do you. So there must be good times because if you consider them your best friends, I'm just kind of curious. Do you want to dive a little bit more into the relationship? Because I think we're all interested in, you know, there are good times and then things flip. And I think it's part of misophonia is we're always kind of like very susceptible or noticing these changes. I don't know. I'm kind of babbling here, but I'm just kind of curious to hear a little bit more about your relationship with your brothers.
Georgie [32:25]: Yeah. My brothers, they're both very highly sensitive people, obviously. Both very intelligent, very creative um individuals um yeah you can have like really stimulating conversations with them um like when they're not in psychosis they're very switched on you know one one of my brothers like builds robots like he doesn't have any education he just he just builds them it's it's incredible the other one um does these really cool art pieces he's in culinary school cooks really amazing dishes so they're people of like a lot of substance but they sometimes destabilize and enter these states, and they become, quite honestly, unbearable to be around. Like, I know they're struggling, but, you know, they get aggressive, rude, um, it's just, like, no one, like, we're all scared of the person who's in psychosis, you know, like, yeah, there's never, like, there's never consistency, I guess, with them, yeah.
Adeel [33:35]: Gotcha. Okay. No, thanks for, yeah, shedding light on that. Yeah, a lot of stuff, you definitely had to be on guard for a lot of stuff growing up. And it's just kind of an amplification. Well, I don't want to compare stuff, but it seems like an amplification of something a lot of people with misophonia kind of go through. do we can kind of i'd love to talk also about you you know you want to talk about uh diet and other kind of coping methods um do you want to share anything about anything about that um the ketogenic diet you mentioned and uh supplements and other kind of remedies i'm kind of curious uh sounds like you've experimented with stuff or maybe want to try some things out or red stuff red stuff yeah um i definitely want to experiment i haven't
Georgie [34:29]: experimented, but I know there's a lot more information about diet, nutrition, all that helping mental health. And I wonder if that can also be applied to misophonia. I know there's I've read online, I haven't tried them, but there are like homeopathic remedies for sound sensitivities. It'd be interesting to know if anyone's tried that for misophonia or if that could be like a future therapy.
Adeel [35:02]: Yeah, I haven't heard of anything to my knowledge, yeah.
Georgie [35:06]: Yeah, because I know they use them sometimes for anxiety and depression. So, I don't know, maybe for misophonia too. Yeah.
Adeel [35:17]: Did somebody actually diagnose you with misophonia?
Georgie [35:20]: Yeah. I saw two audiologists. I don't know who else to see. And they both... One of them officially diagnosed me. Is that the thing?
Adeel [35:34]: She said I had it. I was just kind of curious if you knew what they put it under. Sometimes they kind of piggyback it on anxiety, some kind of anxiety or some, you know, or some ideological thing. And so I'm curious, did they offer any kind of help, whether CBT or medication or something?
Georgie [35:58]: Um, they offered the hearing aids.
Adeel [36:02]: Oh, the Widex kind of the... Yeah.
Georgie [36:04]: But they were really expensive, and I didn't really see them helping, and I didn't really want to wear them every day. So I was like... I got them. I actually did get them, but I only used them for, like, a week, because I hated how it felt. And I was like, I don't see this doing anything besides teaching me to avoid it even more, so... I don't know. I just kind of gave up with that. I'm sure there's some science to it, but I just, I don't know. I feel like there's another way to treat misophonia.
Adeel [36:36]: It was just kind of tuned white noise. So you can probably get that from what you were doing in your exams and whatnot.
Georgie [36:45]: Yeah, so there's no point with that. As far as medication goes, I've never been prescribed anything for misophonia, but I've found my medications I'm on currently, like lithium and lamictal help, and then also the beta blocker propanolol. That one helps me a lot. It was just like anxiety levels, because... Propanenol blocks the bioflight response, basically. So that helps a little.
Adeel [37:21]: I don't know if that is starting to get some attention for research. So it's interesting that you are... Oh, really? Yeah. Cool. From misophonia.
Georgie [37:29]: Yeah. Very early. I take it.
Adeel [37:32]: Yeah. Interesting. Okay. What did you mention? Some of the other medications that you're taking for some other issues?
Georgie [37:38]: Yeah, lithium and lamictal.
Adeel [37:40]: Okay.
Georgie [37:41]: Those have helped just, like, my anxiety levels. I mean, I'm still not, like, 100%, but they help. Like, with the, like, really extreme, you know, anxiety and extreme reactions to misophonia. Yeah. I also know things like ADHD stimulants and just other stimulants have made it so much worse. Drinking alcohol, like, the day after, like, a hangover, just, like, that kind of feeling that'll make my misophonia worse.
Unknown Speaker [38:19]: Yeah.
Adeel [38:21]: What did you mean by ADHD sub-stimulants? They give you stimulants for ADHD? I'm kind of ignorant about how they treat ADHD, I guess.
Georgie [38:31]: Yeah, so they... There's many treatments, but I guess, like, the most popular ones are stimulants. And there's, like, Adderall, Vyvanse.
Adeel [38:42]: Okay, okay. Gotcha.
Georgie [38:43]: Yeah. I find those really activating, especially Vyvanse for some reason. That one just made me, like... completely crazy like any misophonia trigger i would just like lose my shit basically yeah it wasn't wasn't the best so i stopped that pretty quickly yeah yeah
Adeel [39:08]: Gotcha. Okay. Um, and yeah, very, what about, um, any, did you see any psychologists, pure psychologists about, um, you know, non medic, non, non medication, um, treatments or therapies for misophonia?
Georgie [39:28]: um i'm currently trying to find one now um but a lot of my therapists i've had hadn't even heard of misophonia like my current one never heard of it so i'm like oh okay um so this is i found um this podcast through cresta um oh yeah yeah yeah yeah on her um I forgot her website, but it was on her website.
Adeel [39:57]: Miss Funny Freedom Lab.
Georgie [39:58]: Yes.
Adeel [39:59]: Do you know her? Have you communicated with her?
Georgie [40:01]: Yeah, I had a phone call with her actually a few weeks ago. Yeah.
Adeel [40:08]: Did you say that she suggested you come on the podcast or was that somebody else?
Georgie [40:11]: No, she just suggested I listen to it and then I thought I might as well go on it.
Adeel [40:17]: She's been on it a few times. I don't know if you've heard her. Okay, cool. Very cool. And maybe, like you said at the beginning, you've got neuroscience and psychology. Do you want to talk a little bit about what your early thoughts are about and what you want to do with those degrees vis-a-vis misophonia? And maybe we can talk into, I don't know, if you have any kind of theories as to how you might want to approach misophonia, things that you'd want to explore. Sure.
Georgie [40:53]: yeah um it's kind of difficult trying to combine psychology and neuroscience and like the graduate level for some reason unless i go into neuropsychology and a clinical psychology phd program is what i've found but um i think i would probably trying to get my masters in clinical psychology and then go from there. I'm also very interested in nutrition so i want to combine those somehow um i don't know how but that's my goal um as far as misophonia treatment i don't really know how i'd approach misophonia um i know i've been reading on cresta's website the different success stories and i find all of those really interesting like the like trauma-based healing and like nervous system healing stuff like that um so i'd probably incorporate that i feel like diet is a really underrated part of mental health i think if you have you know your diet under control like really well i feel like mental health symptoms also just go down too um and cutting out like alcohol and other substances um but yeah i don't i don't really have a specific way i think i'd treat it i would just go based off of the research at that time
Adeel [42:33]: yeah yeah no but yeah recently um i think it's correct i think it's worth exploring the the trauma-based um because i you know i think and anyone who's listening knows that i think a lot of this is related to stuff that happened to us growing up i mean you're probably a good case in point a candidate for like stuff happened growing up um i don't think it happens to everybody equally i think there's also maybe some genetic predisposition diet kind of things like these all these are all factors that kind of play against each other that's why i don't think there's going to be one research paper that's going to come out and solve it it's going to be um pretty personalized but these are all factors yeah definitely yeah i feel like it is it's like anxiety it's a really personalized journey to healing it and everyone yeah it's different so i guess that might be similar with misophonia right Do you want to talk a little bit about your... You mentioned a conspiracy theory, which I don't think is such a conspiracy theory, but the effect of technology on misophonia, potentially.
Georgie [43:46]: Yeah.
Adeel [43:46]: Safe space, talk about whatever you want. You know, just go on whatever tangents.
Georgie [43:50]: Yeah, so I don't have, like, any real science, but I just have a theory, because I noticed, like, once I started... using an itouch and using headphones was when i got misophonia and i don't know if maybe like because i had the technology at such a young age maybe it caused my misophonia to come sooner than average um i also know i've been doing a little bit of research on this but i i don't know like enough to really speak too much on it but i know um uh there's like emf frequency sensitivities and some people have that and it can increase anxiety fatigue depression insomnia all that stuff i feel like that could play a role um and i know because like i've tried this myself i know that whenever i turn off but turn my phone on airplane mode so like the cellular cellular is off wi-fi is off and i go to bed i actually sleep a lot better than if i have it on and i've tested that over the past like couple years so i generally turn it off which kind of supports my point um and like the other thing kind of related to that is that technology releases positive ions and those can negatively affect mental health. I have a little list here. I think online it said mental health um can increase inflammation mood swings chronic pain anxiety irritation allergies all of that and there's technology all around us like everywhere wi-fi computers cell phones um fluorescent lighting i know that's one of them um like toxic paints um air pollution stuff like that i feel like that could probably affecting all of us in some way and maybe worsening misophonia, anxiety, other symptoms. I wouldn't be surprised if that comes out in the future.
Adeel [46:09]: Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, yeah, there's people who think radio waves and things are affecting. It does sometimes fall into the conspiracy, you know, and I don't know what all the studies are. Usually a lot of those tend to be debunked in the media. But I feel like there is at least a technological aspect in terms of things are hitting our senses differently than they used to in kind of less organic ways. Things are just kind of more packaged, filtered. And so I'm also wondering if like, you know, not... um well i mean not hearing not hearing things always organically coming through headphones speakers mastered in recording studios all the time if that's somehow messing with how we perceive sound our relationship to sound
Georgie [47:10]: yeah and also with that i feel like some people are probably more sensitive to those effects than others um like with anything really um which is why sometimes i think when the media debunks things i don't really believe it because everyone responds differently to things so you might have a group of test subjects who
Adeel [47:33]: aren't affected by it or maybe one or two of them are and then you'll say oh like 90 weren't affected so you know it's bs but i don't you mentioned and i totally agree things affect everybody differently and that's all part of evolution evolution is about we're all kind of slightly different experiments um you mentioned uh the term highly sensitive person do you do you know that that's you know that's a real term um and do you identify as one
Georgie [48:03]: Yes. I feel like most people in my family do too.
Adeel [48:10]: Do they openly? Do they use that term themselves or you kind of like see that in everybody? I'm curious if they have any kind of self-awareness.
Georgie [48:18]: Yeah, they do. I think at least one of my brothers has used that term before. Yeah. I mean, we've all been labeled as sensitive growing up. Even like my dad, I think, we're all very, like, in tune with others, but we don't know how to handle those feelings.
Adeel [48:42]: Just fascinating. In tune, but not very empathetic.
Georgie [48:45]: Yeah. It's like this confused state.
Adeel [48:51]: Could I ask what maybe your... Maybe I should have asked this earlier about how your dad's and or mom's childhoods were like. Were they also dealing with...
Georgie [49:05]: because it usually just doesn't just kind of pop up i'm just kind of curious if they all had if they also had adversity yeah um neither of my parents had schizoaffective disorder or anything like that like my brothers do which is kind of strange um but growing up my dad um he went to boarding school at a very young age and i think that was really traumatic for him My mother, I don't think she had much adversity. She might correct me on that, I don't know. But yeah, maybe some conflict with siblings, but nothing out of the ordinary.
Adeel [49:47]: What about other family members outside of your nuclear family? How do they, I don't know, maybe talk to them about, A, about misophonia, but also kind of like, do they know what kind of family life was kind of like for you guys growing up?
Georgie [50:04]: We kind of keep the extreme mental illness stuff out of conversations with people. Not many people know. But I guess with misophonia, I know my mom's sister, so my aunt, she has it. Not as bad as me, but she has it decently bad. So there's probably some genetic component. I just got the worst of it.
Adeel [50:35]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotcha. And have you met anybody else at school? I'm trying to think, did we already talk about it? Yeah, I'm just kind of curious. Do you know anybody with misophonia?
Georgie [50:47]: Outside of the family, I don't think so. I try and explain it to people. Like, I've explained it to my roommate, and she's been very kind about it, but, you know, she says she understands, and, like, you know, if there's anything I need to let her know, and then she'll, like, chew gum next to me.
Unknown Speaker [51:05]: Yeah, classic.
Georgie [51:07]: I don't think you really understand. Like, she's not doing it to, you know, try and hurt me or anything. She's just unaware of how it affects me.
Adeel [51:16]: Yeah. How was it going into dorms? Did you have to do a little bit of reconnaissance to get prepared for that?
Georgie [51:28]: Well, I guess because of COVID, I was never in dorms, but I was in student housing, which I still consider dorms in a way. Yeah. But yeah, that really bugs me because I had upstairs neighbors and they were really heavy footed. That would drive me crazy. And then the neighbors next to me would put their speaker up to the wall and just turn it to volume 100. And I'm like, oh my god, this is crazy. and then like my roommate would be like burning something in the kitchen so i'd have that smell too it was just like such an overwhelming experience every day um so um the next year i actually requested the top floor and like the quietest room and so far it's been pretty good um i haven't Really had many issues besides footsteps, but that's, you know, I can't tell people to not walk. And my room backs up against the stairwell, so sometimes that's loud, but it's a lot better than it was my sophomore year of college, you know.
Adeel [52:33]: Gotcha. Okay, okay. So you're now graduating, right? Is that what you said?
Georgie [52:39]: Yes, I graduated.
Adeel [52:40]: Did you say you're taking a break, or are you going to jump right into your master's?
Georgie [52:45]: Yeah, I'm going to take a year out to gain more clinical experience, I think. Yeah.
Adeel [52:50]: Gotcha. And how are you going to do that? Just connect with a therapist and kind of like be... I'm not sure how that works.
Georgie [52:58]: yeah um so currently i'm a research assistant for a research lab um and i do some volunteer work but i want to be paid so i mean for like a clinical job maybe like a mental health technician there's not really many choices for a bachelor's in psychology so i just kind of have to go with whatever i find right right right gotcha
Adeel [53:23]: No, well, I mean, yeah, I hope this is the beginning of a long and fruitful career in, you know, clinical therapy and also research. It sounds like you're, yeah, kind of the sky's the limit and you have many ways you can go. That's great. I mean, we've covered, you know, we're coming up to like an hour. Hopefully this flew by. I know you were, like some people, kind of nervous at the beginning. Hopefully it kind of like has been fairly natural. I'm curious, you know, you had a bunch of notes that you gave me and you probably have in front of you. Anything else that you want to share with the audience about your experience, your thoughts on misophonia?
Georgie [54:05]: yeah um when i was around like 15 um i was like wrongly put on antidepressants because i feel like it's like a known thing you shouldn't put people who have bipolar disorder on antidepressants but i was on um prozac and i got like really depressed like i i was like you know Not okay. My misophonia was terrible then. And I don't know if this is more of a sensitive topic, but I found it like a... like a note to my misophonia. It was very hopeless. I don't want to say like suicide note. It was pretty similar to that. And a lot of it was about misophonia and just... addressing the shame and guilt and rage I experienced with it, um, and how it ruined every relationship for me, and I would just, like, sit in my room and cry. I couldn't do anything because I was just getting triggered all the time. I couldn't hang out with people. I was missing out on quality family time, friends time, stuff like that. Um, I think that was definitely my low point with misophonia. I don't think I've been that bad, but I was definitely, um, I felt really hopeless around that time.
Adeel [55:32]: Do you remember writing that note?
Georgie [55:37]: Or was it just... I think vaguely. Yeah. Yeah, I used to write diary notes whenever I was, like, raged. But that one was, like, really... I don't know. It had a lot of... really depressing stuff in it. Just a lot about health.
Adeel [55:57]: I was just wondering if that was related to the wrong prescriptions that you were on, and maybe it just all set you in that state.
Georgie [56:06]: Yeah, I mean, I was... I mean, like I said before, I was struggling with anxiety since I was like six or something. So I've always had something, but I think the antidepressants made everything so much worse for me until I found mood stabilizers and then suddenly...
Adeel [56:29]: my world like lifted up and was happy so um yeah because you you know you mentioned the shame and guilt and missing out because some people call it um this funny grief um because you're there's there's a loss associated with these um um experiences moments that we can't have um i kind of i guess i kind of glossed over it because you know it sounded like your trouble was so chaotic and there was a lot of non-validation so uh you know i figured there'd be some shame and guilt but uh i was i guess i wasn't sure how much if yeah how much you felt you lost because I don't know how much quality time there was, but then I'm starting to learn that there was some quality time. Obviously, Love Your Brothers and whatnot. So it sounds like a very, I mean, it just amplifies, just goes to show it sounds like it was a very like, I don't want to use the term a bipolar childhood, but it did flip like back and forth a lot from highs and lows.
Georgie [57:37]: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I missed that one a lot. That's definitely true.
Adeel [57:46]: Was the rest of your family very close, even though there was a lot of stuff going on and you were kind of a little bit more on the outside?
Georgie [57:54]: Um... not really i think it was just more like if we were all having a good time and like my mother's voice was annoying me i'd have to remove myself and then i'd be missing on like a family bonding time yeah that would really upset me or just um being yeah just i want to be in the room with my family but i can't um like a lot of a lot of my life is like trying to avoid the next misophonia trigger or just like finding ways to deal with it if it comes up like it's never just i can never just relax in like a public space or a space with other people um it's not even always people who trigger me like Like, inanimate objects that, like, beep or tick will trigger me. Or, like, dogs or something, if they, like, lick their paws. Like, I have so many triggers.
Adeel [58:52]: It's just... Yeah. I was gonna ask, like, did you... Do you ever do any, I don't know, self-care kind of stuff where you just kind of get away for a while?
Georgie [59:00]: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um... leaving the situation has been helpful i have a white noise machine i use every night because i'm a really light sleeper um my white noise headphones um i also put pillows or towels under my door which helps with certain outside noises um What else do I do? I know, like, in car rides, when you can't escape, car rides were always, like, one of my biggest triggers, and they still are. But I would always have to have, still do, have to have my headphones on me. And then I can calm down if I put those in. Yeah.
Adeel [59:47]: Even just knowing that they're there. Sometimes just knowing that it is, that they are there kind of like brings down the stress level, which... Yeah, definitely.
Georgie [59:58]: I carry my headphones or my AirPods with me like... wherever i go and like if they're dead like really stresses me out or if i can't find them it stresses me out yep yeah yep yep no yeah no yeah there's a definitely we'll have any oh fuck when we realize it's not in our pocket
Adeel [60:18]: Yeah. And that brings up another thing. You know, I tell myself I'm going to take them everywhere. But, you know, if I haven't been triggered for a while, it's easy to forget that you have it until you get screwed by that trigger. Because we don't, like you said, I think at the beginning, the worst time to talk about or think about Missoni is when you're in the middle of a trigger. because you were like in incredible Hulk mode. But I find when I'm not triggered, I don't want to think about, or I'm not thinking about misophonia. I'm trying to use my time. And then I get kind of screwed because I kind of lose my edge. I mean, it sounds like you were, well, maybe we can talk about it. I mean, it sounds like you kind of grew up being used to being on the edge all the time. I don't know if that is, that's still something that you live with. And that's why you're always kind of thinking about preparing for the next moment.
Georgie [61:11]: yeah um i'm definitely always on edge if if not with misophonia with other stuff too like there's a growing up i had to tiptoe a lot around my family members so i have to be like hyper aware of everything so i can like protect myself if something happens if someone gets angry whatever um so i think yeah i think that definitely has worsened my misophonia
Adeel [61:39]: Do you ever... I don't know if you've thought back. Obviously, you have to protect yourself. But I sometimes wonder if part of it is you feel like you need to protect the person who's losing their temper or you're trying to get validation from them or trying to calm them down in a way before you calm yourself down. I feel like a lot of it is like... we were we're kind of like in good or the misophonia is looking for danger not just for ourselves but maybe also to um to look for um a warning sign that might set off that parent or that other family member i'm curious if you've ever thought of it that way Because when I think about it that way, I almost think of it as a misuse, but maybe a needed empathetic warning system. Almost a positive thing that kind of like has been causing other problems. I'm getting a little bit philosophical, but I'm just kind of curious if you've ever kind of thought of it that way.
Georgie [62:48]: No, I haven't. That's a really interesting A, yeah.
Adeel [62:52]: Because, I mean, as a child, you kind of, like, obviously you want to protect yourself, but I think, you know, you're not so disconnected from your parents, because you, you know, in the grand scheme of things, you were kind of recently born. I've heard for a few years, your brain almost hasn't fully separated from the parent. So I'm just going to kind of think about, is it a child who's trying to protect themselves and or is kind of trying to protect the parent from whatever may be setting them off? Because a lot of us have had. Like, you know, your dad or, you know, going from normal to, like, being set off. I've had, you know, people with alcoholic parents, schizophrenic parents. And there seems to be a lot of walking and actually listening. But I'm wondering if there's an aspect which is, like, trying to protect the parent, in a way, as that child.
Georgie [63:51]: Yeah, that's really interesting. I haven't... thought of it that way.
Adeel [63:56]: Not many people have. It just kind of came up as I've talked to people like Cresta on the podcast. It's an interesting intake and I'm wondering if there's some way to kind of work through that that can kind of be part of the treatment on the psychological side.
Georgie [64:14]: Yeah, that's really interesting. No, I've never thought of that. That'd be worth investigating. Yeah.
Adeel [64:21]: Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. That's just part of why I find this a fascinating topic. It's not, it's not, it's more than just an aversion to specific sounds.
Georgie [64:32]: Yeah.
Adeel [64:33]: Many layers.
Georgie [64:36]: I guess one analogy, I don't know if it's an analogy, something I like to tell people to help them understand my misophonia is like, It's like if someone took a rubber band and was just, like, flicking it on, like, the same spot and it becomes, like, a wall over time. And they just keep flicking it. And then you ask that person to stop. And they're like, like, you're just overreacting. And it's like, no, you're, like, flicking me. Like, that's kind of, like... how i don't for people who don't have misophonia that's like the best i can um kind of explain it because like i kind of used that um or i did that on my boyfriend i gently i took like a little rubber band and i flicked it and i'm like this is what one noise sounds like and then over time that repetitive yeah and then it's also like for me it's like if um the rubber band was held in like the up position on your skin but it hasn't been released yet and that's like the anticipation of the noise it's just like you know it's like there on you and it's gonna kind of the only way i can really that's that's really that's really cool that makes a lot of sense that's relatable but
Adeel [65:59]: Yeah. No, I mean, I get what you're saying. It's like, little things can accumulate and kind of break down the skin and just kind of make that skin really raw. And to the outsider, you're like, oh, I'm just doing a little flick, but no, it started when I was like four years old.
Georgie [66:16]: Yeah, so like one little flick can trigger a, you know, whereas, yeah. I don't know. I've even used the analogy, I don't know if this is too extreme, but like, Someone put, like, alcohol on, like, an open wound. That's, like, the rage. And then people are like, why are you reacting like that? Like, you're so dramatic. Right. I don't know.
Adeel [66:41]: Yeah, have you had people literally say that? Like, you're being dramatic or, you know, to the point where you get embarrassed and... Yeah, definitely.
Georgie [66:49]: Definitely. There's a lot of shame and embarrassment around misophonia. People are like, oh, like... you know just look away or just you know move away or being irrationally dramatic being bitchy rude um bossy has that affected your social life in terms of like being bullied maybe or or like a lot of passive aggressive probably I remember I had this one friend, we don't like each other anymore, but she was really rude a lot of the time, and she would smack her food and her candy and stuff really loudly, and I was like, hey could you please don't do that, it's really loud, and she's like, oh you're being dramatic. it's your problem you know stuff like that so I've definitely had that but um I don't know I don't really socialize much so I don't get that anymore I have like three or four yeah I have like three or four friends and you know I'm pretty open with them so I don't get those responses um I feel like if I were to tell a stranger that would probably be different I have yet to do that um but I've been really close to telling strangers like hey look triggered but then I doubt they would even understand what I was saying so yeah we've all kind of made those calculations and many of us land on the side of if we're not going to see them 30 seconds from now is it really worth it yeah that's kind of two hours from now yeah yeah or it's like in school um or college like everyone kind of like finds a seat on the first day and they stick to it um Where do you go?
Adeel [68:39]: Are you a front person or a back person?
Georgie [68:41]: I'm a front person. I don't like looking at people in front of me because of the visual. But sometimes I'll get the person next to me or behind me chewing gum. And I'm like, I can't move across the classroom because someone else sits there and it's just obvious if I just suddenly move. So I just have to deal with it. I'll sometimes do the... you know, the glaring face, but, like, they're not really going to understand why I'm glaring at them. I just, like, hope they do. Because it's like, how could you make such an offensive noise and not care about the people around you that, you know, in their head, they're paying attention.
Adeel [69:20]: Did you crank up the white noise a little bit?
Georgie [69:25]: I don't wear them in class. Only during test-taking. Um... I've thought about it, but I feel like it would be too muffling, maybe.
Adeel [69:38]: Because the new AirPods, the AirPods Pros and whatnot, they're supposed to have the conversational awareness, so they can block out that the a-hole behind you you know chewing gum but can kind of um can kind of um increase the the voice of coming towards you so i would think i haven't been in school in way too long but like i would think that they could maybe kind of like rebalance things a little bit Cool. Well, um, yeah, uh, um, Georgie, I mean, this is, this has been great. Uh, I know, um, if, if there is more stuff that you want to talk about, I'd love to hear about it now or, or, or in the future, but I know, but, um, you know, this has already been a, quite a informative, informative episode. Um, yeah, I want to thank you for sharing everything, you know, being so candid and, um, yeah, this is going to help a lot of people. Thank you.
Georgie [70:31]: yeah yeah definitely there's definitely a lot more to share um i'm willing to i don't know if you're allowed to give out emails but i'm willing to talk to anyone who wants to reach out to me um i don't know how i do that
Adeel [70:49]: Yeah, for sure. Well, um, you know, I'm definitely going to, uh, well, obviously people are listening right now, reach out to me and I can connect, you know, I can connect you. And that's kind of, that happens, um, quite often people hear something that resonates with them and then you kind of want to connect with somebody to kind of talk about, you know, little, little details. Cause we do have a lot, a lot of us have a lot of things in common. Um, so yeah, I appreciate you. You've kind of like saying that and I'm happy to connect anyone, anyone who's listening for sure.
Unknown Speaker [71:21]: Yes, totally.
Adeel [71:22]: Thank you again, Georgie. As I said, we'd love to have you on again and again, especially as your career takes off. If you liked this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or just hit the five stars wherever you listen to this podcast. You can hit me up by email at helloatmissiphoneypodcast.com or go to the website, missiphoneypodcast.com. It's soft and even easier just to send a message on Instagram at misophonypodcast, follow there, or Facebook at misophonypodcast and on X's Misophony Show. Support the show by visiting the Patreon at patreon.com slash misophonypodcast. The music, as always, is by Moby. And until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.
Unknown Speaker [72:32]: you