#197 - Tomasz

Tomasz is a primary care doctor from Poland, We talk about how misophonia is not well-known in Poland and is often misunderstood. Tomas explains that his triggers are mostly connected to people he knows well, such as family and close friends. He also mentions being triggered by eating sounds and labored breathing. Tomas discusses how he explains misophonia to others, often using a neurobiological explanation. He also talks about the living conditions he grew up in and how they may have contributed to his misophonia. He shares his coping methods and the challenges he faces in social situations. Tomasz also talks about his discovery of misophonia and the importance of raising awareness about the condition.

Adeel [0:01]: Welcome to the Misophonia podcast. This is episode 197. My name is Adeel Ahmad and I have Misophonia. This week I'm talking to Tamash. who's a primary care doctor from Poland. We talk about how misophonia is not well known in Poland, and how it's often misunderstood. Tomasz explains that its triggers are mostly connected to people he knows well, such as family and close friends. He also mentions being triggered by eating sounds and hard, labored breathing. Tomasz discusses how he explains misophonia to others, often using a neurobiological explanation. He talks about living conditions he had growing up and how they may have contributed to his meso. And he shares his coping methods and the challenges he faces daily in social situations. Dimash also talks about his discovery of misophonia, the term, and the importance of raising awareness about the condition. After the show, let me know what you think. You can reach out by email at hello at misophoniapodcast.com or hit me up on Instagram or Facebook at Misophonia Podcast. By the way, please do head over, leave a quick review or rating wherever you listen to the show. It really helps drive us up in the search algorithms that help us reach more listeners. A few of my usual announcements. Of course, thanks for the incredible ongoing support of our Patreon supporters. If you feel like contributing, you can read all about the various levels at patreon.com slash misophonia podcast. All right, now here's my conversation with Tamash. Tomasz, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here.

Tomasz [1:44]: It's nice to be here, thanks.

Adeel [1:46]: Yeah, so do you want to tell us, I guess, kind of where you're located?

Tomasz [1:51]: So I'm in Poland. I'm Polish, come from Poland, live in a city in the western part of Poland called Poznań.

Adeel [2:05]: Cool, okay. And I guess, what do you do over there?

Tomasz [2:10]: I work as a primary care physician. We call them family physicians over here. I'm not sure about America.

Adeel [2:19]: Yes, something similar, yeah. A general physician or a family physician. Cool. Well, I guess maybe starting there, kind of in your job, in your day-to-day, how is misophonia? I guess you're treating a lot of people and all kinds of people probably come in.

Tomasz [2:41]: Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, it's not something that people usually bring up at all, right? maybe once or twice, I got a chance to talk to a patient about it, like came up during like, probably when we were talking about anxiety that this patient might have been experiencing, and maybe it came to my mind, actually, and I asked them upfront about it, like, Do you have any, like, sound sensitivities? And they said, Oh, yes, yes. And I could I was able to give them this term misophonia, because they didn't necessarily know it. Yeah. But apart from I don't think I'm not sure about America. But in Poland, it's not such a well known condition. I mean, not at all.

Adeel [3:41]: Yeah.

Tomasz [3:42]: Most know the name. would be interested if you mentioned it like uh i do it out i say like in order to explain myself why i'm not willing to sit at the table i would say oh sorry i have like a bad a very bad case of misophonia they would say oh what's that and like most of them are super interested same with my patients but the recognition of this condition is it's not very widespread i would say yeah i've heard outside of the us and uk it's it's not we're very well known it's not known enough here either but uh a little bit more i guess in other parts including eastern europe um i mean you get triggered at work too like you know a patient comes in or or and you know you're getting triggered but you have to like help them i mean i i think that i'm a fairly typical case in the sense of uh my trigger my triggers being mostly connected to people that i know very well so most of the patients i mean There are no patients that I have an intimate relationship with, so I don't really get triggered at work. Not at all.

Adeel [5:01]: Gotcha. Yeah, that's great. And, yeah, I mean, so I guess what are your usual triggers? I guess they're at home, maybe with family or friends.

Tomasz [5:13]: Yeah, these are fairly typical as well. Most of them have to do with, like, eating.

Unknown Speaker [5:21]: Mm-hmm.

Tomasz [5:22]: uh and the one that i'm most embarrassed about and i think it's also fairly common to be embarrassed about this one is that i'm very triggered by very like labeled breathing it's it's the worst for me yeah like labored breathing like a heavy heavy breathing or very breathing yeah

Adeel [5:44]: Well, how do you explain it? Have you tried to explain it to the people that are the biggest triggers for you?

Tomasz [5:53]: Oh, yeah. I mean, I would usually say that... I would start off by saying that I'm very embarrassed and I also think that that's what most people would do because it just sounds so weird to people. So I'd say that I'm embarrassed, but... I would try to give a neurobiological explanation for it. Nothing fancy or anything like that. I would say that just my brain malfunctions. I'm not sure how it works exactly, but... are certain sounds that set me off and this have to do with like mostly with those physiological sounds that people make like while eating or like yeah breathing itself as well yeah and uh yeah like to most people like for most people it sounds uh very peculiar But I don't know how it is in America, but I'm sure it's way better than in Poland. But even in Poland, people are now very accustomed to hearing about people who might be autistic or people who might have any other neurodivergent stuff going on. And I think that it has also sensitize people to problems like that. Maybe if we didn't have this awareness of, let's say, autism, it would be more difficult to give this sort of explanation or even start talking about it. But because we already have that, I think that people have easier time like wrapping their heads around this and this sort of stuff.

Adeel [7:57]: Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, there's been a lot more awareness of these other conditions that are, that sound similar. Yeah, I guess maybe, I don't know, maybe rewinding going back to when you first started noticing misophonia. Do you remember kind of how old you were? What was going on?

Tomasz [8:16]: Well, I was reading up on it and I thought that most people can usually recall like a particular moment in their lives usually when they're very little when it started becoming really bad for them i i can't really recall i think that it has always been with me I don't know how common is that, that people would say that I have always been like that, because to my surprise, I bet most people can recall a particular moment.

Adeel [8:50]: That's interesting, because I thought that, yeah, I thought that most people can't recall an exact moment, although I've had a number of people come on who have said that they remember the moment. I just kind of remember the general timeframe, but not an exact moment.

Tomasz [9:07]: Yeah, same with me. I just remember that I was Very little. And what I remember is like a progression. What I mean is that I started reacting very badly to one particular person, who was my brother. And I remember that I refused to sit at the table with him. I would cry. I would say that he is disgusting and so on. Not probably, but that's what I can recall. And then it just, oh yeah, like, whatever reaction I had to my brother, I started to develop this same sort of reaction to any other member in my family. And the degree to which I was sensitized to this hunt that they were making also varied. Like with my brother, it was pretty bad because he was kind of a loud eater. Like with my sister, it was much easier for me. But I couldn't really... sit comfortably around any of them at some point and still like that I wouldn't be able to have a Christmas meal with them around them. But now they're very understanding of that.

Adeel [10:28]: Yeah, well, I'd love to hear about how that progression happened to them, being understanding, like how did they, obviously you said you were calling and discussing, what was their reaction?

Tomasz [10:42]: Yeah, I mean, I was like a little kid when I did that. He acted like any other little kid who is being slighted. He would just smack me or something like that. Yeah. But I think that it's funny when people see what kind of reaction you actually have. They see that it's very visceral. Usually they know that something's going on, that you're not making this up. They see your turmoil and they... Maybe they might... I'm sure they still think it's very peculiar to have this sort of reaction and so on, but they see what's happening and they... I don't think that most people that are familiar with people that have this would... deny that there is something going on. I can do the same with my family. Like they, like very early on, they knew that they have a problem. They didn't have a solution for me. But they wouldn't give me any hard time they would let me like, it's on and so on.

Adeel [12:02]: The benefit of the doubt that that something was Yeah, yeah.

Tomasz [12:07]: Because why would they make

Adeel [12:09]: uh something like this up right yeah yeah otherwise you're telling your kid you're on your way to being a doctor it's it's not like yeah it sounds like you're doing something on purpose uh just to annoy me it could have been yeah it could have been worse and i'm sure that that families i i'm sure there are families that place

Tomasz [12:32]: a much more emphasis on like eating together or whatever so luckily my family really didn't so maybe it was easier to like uh skip uh family meals and so on but for some i imagine that some people when they grow up it might be more problematic for them to like

Adeel [12:58]: say sorry i won't like sit with you all because i find you disgusting yeah yeah no that's a that's an important thing that has come up is you know yeah some families obviously like you said place a huge emphasis on sitting around the family meal and but others uh try to bond outside of meals doing other things maybe that are not triggering going for walks or whatnot so yeah Do you remember what was going on? Was anything unusual happening in your life or in your home around the time when you maybe started to have triggers?

Tomasz [13:39]: I don't really remember anything particular happening, like one event that could have brought this on. But I was thinking about it and I think that it's like my misophonia has something to do with uh our living conditions like i had four siblings and for an american it might be unimaginable i guess but i had four siblings like my mom and my dad and we lived in a flat that was 35 meters square very, very cramped. And you just cannot sit alone for a second. Even if you go to another room and you're theoretically alone, you can hear everything what's happening.

Adeel [14:45]: Yeah, that's very small for six people to be in an apartment.

Tomasz [14:53]: Yeah, I think so. So... I guess that it can happen with some people, that's my thinking, that if you are not given any time for yourself to get some rest from all the noises and so on, it might so happen that you get like oversensitizing to them that's my like working hypothesis about my miserable yeah i think it doesn't have to affect everybody so it could be that um you know

Adeel [15:33]: some people are predisposed to being more sensitive. And then if some living condition switches on or exacerbates it, that could be what it takes.

Tomasz [15:46]: Yeah, I have always been very worried about... Not really worried, I was very curious and maybe a little disturbed by the idea that I might be like... atypical neurologically. I know what, like, I always thought to myself, if I if I had to have a brain scan, I guess I would be very interested if it would show something even though I know that like, no specific neuroimaging. new imaging findings that have connected to me different. And a week ago, interestingly enough, I had like, out of nowhere, generalized seizure episode. That's time in my life. And I did have to have an MRI scan. And I got my results yesterday. And it's like, showed a lot of non specific, but interesting findings. It's that I have like a hyper density in this part of the brain and the radiologist ascribes ascribes ascribes it to like, perinatal injury. It's very interesting to see. I mean, I'm sure that I have I'm sure that I wouldn't be able to connect any of those findings to whatever I could find in the literature about misophonia. It's interesting to see that there is some evidence of my brain being a bit...

Adeel [17:37]: atypical or injured you can say because yeah yeah that is interesting yeah there isn't um right there is like you said there isn't any um direct i guess um neuroimaging connection to misophonia i think that research is going to is is is starting to happen or is in the planning stages but uh But yeah, I don't know of any yet, but that's going to be an interesting direction for sure. What about other, well, so just to set the record straight, none of your siblings developed misophonia?

Tomasz [18:20]: I'm not that close with my siblings. But when I think about it, I think that two of my sisters might have the same issue. Maybe not to the same degree. But yeah, I can remember for sure that they were very triggered by maybe by another set of sounds. I remember myself being very annoyed by anybody facing up and down a room which was all clean so I guess if I were to like observe them if I had a chance I would pick up more stuff yeah were you you said you're not super close to them was there anything related to maybe how you were reacting to misophonia or other life things yeah I think it's other life things I could like could deal with the misophonia stuff and i'm sure they would be understanding it was like some other stuff gotcha gotcha what about at school and you know friends teachers yeah like uh yeah i uh i would react badly to like some of my closest friends uh again i i i always need to have a a very like not uh not to say a very intimate relationship with somebody that i i don't want to say that it must be a romantic relationship or anything but i must be very close to a person to even notice how they sound and sometimes when i'm around people that are very loud eaters and I don't have any close relationship to them I would notice that they like sound awful when they eat but it doesn't bother me at all which is the strangest thing like you listen to the same sounds but they are not produced by people that are close to you and it doesn't affect you at all it's a mystery said that that's what people say with animals like they find their dogs making those like slurping sounds or whatever cute but they couldn't stand it if a human did it yeah did and then did uh i mean did you tell friends um do you still tell friends about miss funny i mean these are the ones that you are close enough to that they trigger you Yeah, because I think that it's like the honesty is the best policy. They see that I act weird. It's better to like give the expert.

Adeel [21:17]: Better tell them why you're glaring at them.

Tomasz [21:20]: Yeah. And they can like read up on it. Maybe they'll find it interesting. Some of them would say like, oh, yes, my brother has it. Yeah. Yeah. So I always do that. I think it's wise to like tell people. uh and also i i'm never really dramatic about it because it's i mean it's um like nidaphonia for me it's it can be quite limiting i think i have a pretty civil case of it that's something that i'm very depressed about and when i talk to people about it i was i oh i also almost try to like laugh it off like oh i have this strange thing yeah don't believe me it's so embarrassing but I cannot be around you.

Adeel [22:10]: You start off trying to kind of make light of it a little bit to kind of break the ice about it, I guess.

Unknown Speaker [22:18]: Yeah.

Adeel [22:19]: And humor does help if it is found to be funny. That can kind of help the situation.

Tomasz [22:27]: Yeah, exactly. Now I'm more worried about like... It has happened to me that I have talked to a person about misophonia, and they would come up to me like one or two weeks later, and they would say, I think I have misophonia, too, because now seeing all the sounds and my mother is bothering me a lot, like when she is and I

Adeel [22:59]: condition like a massive history it's like you're inducing people to like have yeah i don't know i don't know yeah that is always a worry i don't know i don't know if it's been studied or or even um looked at kind of anecdotally but uh Yeah, because some people have it. But yeah, I mean, I haven't heard about it enough to think that it's like misophony is contagious. But I can see how maybe people who are maybe on the edge can start to notice things more.

Tomasz [23:37]: What about... It's also linguistically, it's very interesting. If you have a term for it, you can recognize this in yourself. Oh yeah, there is this thing, and I think now that i think of it i think i have those symptoms as well because it's also like a continuum right everybody gets another way it sounds so yeah it's pretty easy to like diagnose yourself with right did you um i mean speaking of diagnoses did you ever um i i guess have did you ever try to see professional about it growing up Oh, I didn't. I couldn't really even imagine whom I would have to turn to. Now I think a psychiatrist would be a good person to talk to. But I did see psychiatrists about different stuff when I was growing up and when I was in my late teens and so on. And the experience that I had with psychiatrists was underwhelming, to say the least. so the idea of talking to them about this even weirder stuff that like a mod is other yeah it wouldn't really occur to me. And I'm sure it wouldn't occur to them either to take it seriously. Right, right.

Adeel [25:03]: What about, and you don't have to go into detail, but was there any overlapping comorbid conditions? Like, you know, many of us have ADHD and other things. I'm just curious if there's anything like that that came up.

Tomasz [25:19]: Yeah, with me, it's like, anxiety, mood disorders, and so on. People that I know that are well-versed in psychology, like psychiatrists or psychologists, would always tell me, after getting to know me, that I must be autistic. And I never know whether to believe them, because I'm not very smart about those things myself. I don't know much about it. But I don't know, maybe there's something to it. Maybe I should see a professional about this and also bring up in Zephaniah.

Adeel [25:55]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would you know what were some of the things that they noticed or said that they noticed that led them to say that?

Tomasz [26:04]: That I'm autistic?

Adeel [26:05]: Yeah.

Tomasz [26:06]: It's funny because I'm quite cynical about it because I think that whenever... a person. That's my experience when I talk to people. And when I concentrate on what I want to say, especially my like mother tongue, I can do that much more efficiently than I can do in English. So if I speak Polish, and I want to like convey an idea, I do concentrate and they like to say whatever is on my mind. Quite. like coherently and for it to like make sense you know what i mean to be as precise as you can possibly be and when i do that a lot of people psychologists psychologists and psychiatrists included would say oh you're autistic which is kind of funny it's like a stereotype of an autistic person like a person that would like be very detailed in their response and so on. It doesn't really make sense to me. So I don't know if they really think that or maybe they are very poor judges of that themselves, even though you would think they would be better at that. I don't know what to think about it. But I'm sure I'm not such a good judge of myself as well. So I'm not sure. interesting like uh my my little stereotype of autistic people is that they are deficient socially in some ways right that's what i think about when i hear autism that there is that autistic people might not be very strong at social interactions and i think of myself as quite adept at that and

Adeel [28:03]: Interesting, yeah. So, I mean, what about coping methods as you were growing up? Well, actually, let's talk about maybe when you found out that misophonia was a thing and it had a name and you started to do a little bit of research.

Tomasz [28:19]: Oh, yeah, yeah. I was a student and I came across this term. I think it was on Wikipedia. I read misophonia and I clicked on that. Yeah, and I read the explanation and Yeah, it's a very nice memory. I think it's probably similar for other people as well. When you discover that there is a name for whatever experience you have been having your whole life, it's kind of cool. It's also funny because I remember when I was growing up, I was embarrassed about all those symptoms that i had and it somehow never occurred to me to like look it up because i think that was things we are usually very narcissistic and we might think that whatever we're experiencing uh is so uncommon probably unheard of and it must not have a name we are unique and so on well also i think it's you know we're so embarrassed by it and shamed ashamed to have these Yeah, that's another thing. Yeah, but it's simple. Prior to that instance, I had never looked it up because I Google stuff all the time and also stuff that is of little relevance to me, just out of curiosity. But this thing that I have been struggling with for so long, somehow it's like, uh yeah never occurred to me to like research it right so what were your um i guess what what were your coping methods growing up and how they kind of changed over time if they have uh yeah i remember that uh one of the uh one of the triggers that i had when I was living with my family in this very small flat that we had was people just sleeping, like whatever sounds you make during sleep. We didn't need to be snoring, just, you know, breathing. And the sound was obviously compounded by the fact that it was very silent at night. And I shared bedroom with three of my siblings. So it was like an echo chamber. So I would just put fingers into my ears and I would try to get through the night. So that was a very unsophisticated method. Then I discovered that there was something called earplugs. I bought myself like a whole supply of those. Yeah, I was very, I wasn't very sophisticated about my methods. I would just like mostly mechanical barriers.

Adeel [31:47]: And yeah, was you leaving the room or just earplugs or headphones at some point probably? yeah yeah exactly yeah what what what what do people usually say that's a yeah i mean those are basically especially before they even know it has a name and and and have heard about coping methods they usually would um yeah leave situations or sound blocking um devices like earplugs and headphones noise cancelling headphones um Yeah, not super sophisticated. Or are trying to get accommodations. This is usually after you know it has a name. But, you know, well, I don't know exactly. I guess you said you were in school. I mean, I'm guessing the answer is no. But did you ever try to get accommodations at the schools you were in?

Tomasz [32:45]: Oh no, I actually remember once I was having a class at a hospital and we were in this room with a patient that was uh having a meal and somehow i mean i did say that strangers uh could make could make all the sounds in the world and it didn't really bother me but at that particular instance it did bother me for some reason maybe i was very tired or sleep deficient because that's that's uh what's always uh the doctor's life Oh, no, I was going to say that if I'm sleep deficient, my misophonia... That's common, yeah. Yeah, that's what I also think that might be common. So maybe I had to, like, pull an all-nighter. But anyway, I was standing in front of this patient and I did feel this urge to leave because she was, like, enjoying this meal in a very... dramatic fashion. So I did leave. And then my professor called me out on that. And I would say like half joke jokingly, obviously, I was being serious, but I was trying to make light of it. And also get out of trouble. Oh, I have this thing called misophonia. And this professor would say, Why are you like learning about those non existent conditions, you should like, put more effort into learning about heart failure or something. So that was the only instance of me mentioning it to another person from the medical field. And the reaction was typical. And I don't really blame them for it. I'm sure that if I didn't have this condition, I would also laugh it off if somebody came up to me and said that that's the explanation for them, like, abruptly leaving the room to everybody else's horror.

Adeel [35:11]: Yeah, I guess that is understandable. If they don't know what it is. Yeah, that was the sudden reaction. Now as an adult, what about relationships? Friends, maybe romantic. Has it affected those? Yeah, whenever I get close to a person,

Tomasz [35:40]: That's what I also say to people at some point. I would say, oh, now I'm realizing that I'm starting to develop some real feelings for you because I'm starting to get very upset when you eat around me.

Adeel [36:03]: I can prove it because I can't stand the way that you eat.

Tomasz [36:07]: yeah exactly yeah i would say like it's my like proof of my affection for you happy valentine's day yeah exactly yeah and actually the last person that i uh told it to like the action was very positive oh that that's that's fantastic so yeah because i usually warn them but if you see this happening it means that i

Adeel [36:37]: care deeply about you that's amazing and how's that worked out does it uh that does that does it last longer after that or i'm just kind of curious how that uh uh you mean if it leads to yeah it doesn't need to conflict or yeah or um yeah not that i not that i recall like usually uh

Tomasz [37:07]: I mean, I think that people are uncomfortable with the idea that we cannot watch a movie and eat at the same time, which is what people do for fun. like the yeah uh and that's that's maybe it takes out some of the uh it's that it it takes out some fun out of the time that i spend together with those people but i don't think that it's uh it's a deal breaker for anybody uh so uh yeah I mean, I think it's more problematic for me than for anybody who might be spending my time with. They're just perplexed, and that's it.

Adeel [38:04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about visual triggers, like mesokinesia? Do you have those as well?

Tomasz [38:12]: I find it very interesting that people do have them. I don't have it, actually. Yeah. And is it common?

Adeel [38:21]: It's pretty common, yeah. Most people that come on, yeah, at some point, I don't want to pass it on to you if it is in any way contagious, but usually, I mean... it doesn't take that long it takes a matter of a matter of maybe the short number of years that it'll um if it doesn't happen right away then just the sight of the triggers will cause issues that's installed for me interesting for you i mean you you don't even get triggered by miss poniat if unless you really know a person so that's that's all already kind of interesting but um so would you say that that's not that typical uh I would say that, well, it's common that it's, well, I would say it's usually the people say that the people closest to them trigger them the most, but that kind of makes sense because you're always around those people. But, yeah, I mean, if I'm in a, if somebody like ephemerally just kind of passes me and they're making some kind of trigger sound it won't cause as much of a problem but if i mean if i spend even like 10 15 minutes around them i will notice it and it'll be a problem um okay but it's more severe yeah yeah i think it i think it is more yeah i think i i would say anecdotally it is more it's more common that even most strangers in most situations will cause the reaction But if you're just passing somebody by on the street and you just hear it once, it's not as likely that I'm going to be triggered by it. But if they're walking next to me as I'm walking down the street and they start triggering, I'm going to have to move.

Tomasz [40:19]: So it cannot be fleeting?

Adeel [40:24]: Yeah, that's a good way of saying it. If it's fleeting, it's less likely because I think my brain, like for most of us, won't assign a danger if it's a fleeting thing. It's only if it picks up on it a little bit more with some more regularity that it kind of assigns danger to it. But it seems like, you know, for you, ironically, that's the other weird thing. I mean, ironically, it's like the people that you're most close to that you would think your brain has, you know, reduced the danger signals that it's actually causing danger. And I don't know, maybe it's because your brain just is like, okay, this danger is always around me. I don't really care who it is. It's just a danger.

Tomasz [41:14]: Yeah, but that's very interesting what you're saying. I've always thought about it, like this contradiction that I'm figured by people that I theoretically should feel safer on the ice.

Adeel [41:27]: I mean, there must be some part of the brain that is not making that connection. It's kind of almost like two parts of the brain. One part obviously has assigned safety to it, but this part, the misophonia part, has not gotten that message.

Tomasz [41:44]: How common is it in your experience from talking to people i think that's what i'm most embarrassed about is that my immediate reaction to somebody uh making those sounds around me is to mock them like and that's the worst because that's very offensive to people to be mocked for the way they eat or let alone breathe breathe So would you say that this is common to have this reaction?

Adeel [42:19]: How do you mock them? Yeah, so there's a mimicking that is actually very common, surprisingly common. So a lot of people will mimic, as in they'll start to make the sound. or the action. And almost as also a coping method because you kind of feel better about it. And there's actually a study by Dr. Kumar about that discovered that, I mean, you're a doctor, you might know about mirror neurons, the mirror neurons in the brain that are watching um that are watching you know the watching somebody else they uh in misophones they tend to go crazy um do a more more like more they're more activated in misophones than non-misophones especially watching oral facial reactions that that are causing them distress And one of the theories is that the imbalance of this overactivity of the mirror neurons is what's causing the distress. And if you can kind of, as you're mimicking, if you mimic, you're kind of like basically rebalancing a little bit in some way.

Tomasz [43:45]: Wow, that's amazing. So now I'm realizing that there is much more interesting research about it that I thought there was.

Adeel [43:55]: There isn't enough, but this was, you might want to look up Dr. Kamara's paper, but it was from just a couple of years ago. And there was also another paper by Dr. Heather Hansen, kind of in response to that, that was also looking at neuroimaging. The one criticism of Dr. Karpiers is that it was so focused on orophacial reactions and it tried to use mirror neurons to kind of suggest an explanation for misophonia when not all triggers are orophacial. There are other triggers. So there's more to the story, but that was definitely an interesting data point.

Tomasz [44:38]: Yeah, it's amazing that they did this as well.

Adeel [44:44]: yeah so so that's interesting yeah yeah that that you find so yeah that's what i was gonna ask you like by mocking did you mean um you don't mean just like telling them that they're disgusting but like that you're actually um mocking like mimicking them yeah that was a poor choice of words on my part yeah i meant i meant like yeah mimicking yeah some people do react very badly to it like

Tomasz [45:12]: understandable. I was wondering whether it's common or maybe...

Adeel [45:21]: That's my... There was actually a new paper in the past year about mimicry by Dr. Paris Ash. Actually, she's not a PhD yet, but she's in a PhD program for looking at misophonia-related issues, but she published a paper in the past year specifically about mimicry as well, so that might be interesting for you to look at.

Tomasz [45:46]: Yeah, I have to look this stuff up. It sounds amazing.

Adeel [45:50]: So, yeah. But, yeah, I guess, yeah, I'm curious, any other thoughts from you, like from obviously your doctor, a doctor who's not obviously studying misophonia, but... You have misophonia. I don't know if you've had any other thoughts or theories or fleeting philosophies about misophonia and kind of what it could be about.

Tomasz [46:16]: Oh, I wish I was smarter about this stuff. At this point, I have never really thought about it deeply. I haven't really solved it. I'm mostly curious about what other people experience. original ideas of my own.

Adeel [46:35]: That's okay. You've got plenty of stuff, I'm sure, on your mind now. Yeah, on your mind. Being a doctor and taking care of people.

Tomasz [46:43]: I actually had my first seizure. That's on my mind now. Yeah.

Adeel [46:48]: Well, I don't know. I mean, obviously it's not related to misophonia, but first of all, I'm just curious. Are you okay? Is there like a... Yeah, I could, yes.

Tomasz [46:59]: Yeah. yeah like for the last uh week i was just very worried that i might have a brain tumor so i was very happy with those results yesterday also very fascinated that there was so much unrelated uh like there are so many incidental findings there uh it's just a funny thing like there is like another neurological thing that's happening to me. I just find it not overwhelming. Now that I think that now that I feel like I'm out of the woods, because I got the imaging results, and they don't look too bad. I just find it very, very fascinating that yet another thing is happening to me. So I should have mentioned that i uh have like a very not not an uncommon uh connectivity disorder that is genetic uh but it does have some uh uh like uh people that uh suffer from the same condition or have the same syndrome i should have said do report that they have a lot of um a lot of um like uh weird uh anxious reactions to a lot of weird stuff and i was i'm i'm on this group uh on this facebook group uh with people that have this condition what's the name of the situation oh it's like a marathon syndrome i don't know if you have heard about it please spell that oh it's n a r f i am okay marvin okay i think i've heard of it but uh first time i've kind of heard it on this podcast at least yeah and they looked up misophonia on this group and yeah it turned out it turned out that a lot of people mention it but then again misophonia is very common so in order to establish any link Yeah, I would have to be a researcher myself.

Adeel [49:36]: Okay. It's not directly linked. I'm just kidding.

Tomasz [49:39]: Oh, no, it's just like anecdotal. I see a lot of people.

Adeel [49:45]: Yeah, no, that's an interesting data point as well.

Tomasz [49:48]: People with this sort of condition that I have, they have a lot of health issues completely unrelated to any of that. and that predisposes them to just love talking about like their own house so that's also like a confounding factor like they might be mentioning misophonia because they just focus so much on their own well-being gotcha gotcha

Adeel [50:23]: Well, interesting. Well, yeah, Thomas, we're getting about an hour here. It's kind of flown by. Yeah. And we covered a lot of ground, but yeah, I'm curious, anything else you want to share about your experience or thoughts on Misophonia?

Tomasz [50:42]: Oh, I think I have overshared by this time.

Adeel [50:46]: No, yeah, we have covered a lot. I didn't mean to put you on the spot. But this is great. I want to be something this episode to my friends. Makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense. Or that supervising doctor. Well, it was great. Thanks again. I hope everything continues to work out after your results from the MRI. And yeah, I appreciate you coming on and sharing. It's good to have people from other parts of the world. And so, yeah, it's great to have you sharing everything you share.

Tomasz [51:30]: Thanks for having me. I'm like, I have mentioned I'm like... exists it's it brings me so much joy to just listen to people i find it very entertaining out of the time so to talk to you it's like a dream come true i appreciate that that means a lot

Adeel [51:51]: Thank you, Tomasz, for the kind words. And I hope awareness for me so grows in Poland and other parts of the world. If you liked this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or rating. You can just hit the five stars for every listener to this podcast. Reach me by email at hellomissiphoniapodcast.com or go to the website missiphoniapodcast.com. It's usually easiest to send a message on Instagram at Misophonia Podcast. You can follow there or Facebook at Misophonia Podcast and on Twitter or X. I should say it's Misophonia Show. Support the show by visiting the Patreon at patreon.com slash Misophonia Podcast. Theme music as always is by Moby. And until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.

Unknown Speaker [52:51]: Thank you.